Anyone ever seen a Miller T head ?

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Model T Tom
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Anyone ever seen a Miller T head ?

Post by Model T Tom » Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:35 am

I have this in my 1911 speedster build .
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Model T Tom
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Re: Anyone ever seen a Miller T head ?

Post by Model T Tom » Tue Dec 01, 2020 2:39 pm

I'm thinking of having some made. Anyone interested it runs strong.


John bevardos
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Re: Anyone ever seen a Miller T head ?

Post by John bevardos » Tue Dec 01, 2020 2:54 pm

yes I am , what does the chamber look like?


john


Joe Voller
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Re: Anyone ever seen a Miller T head ?

Post by Joe Voller » Tue Dec 01, 2020 2:57 pm

what kind of money, I would assume they will be Aluminum . Any idea what the compression ratio is?


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Model T Tom
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Re: Anyone ever seen a Miller T head ?

Post by Model T Tom » Tue Dec 01, 2020 4:29 pm

I have to get back to Detroit to pull it off. Needs a new head gasket. Don't remember what the chambers look like but hot. I'm going to fly to Detroit and pull it off .


ThreePedalTapDancer
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Re: Anyone ever seen a Miller T head ?

Post by ThreePedalTapDancer » Tue Dec 01, 2020 6:45 pm

That would be a neat one to reproduce.


Joe Bell
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Re: Anyone ever seen a Miller T head ?

Post by Joe Bell » Tue Dec 01, 2020 9:35 pm

The time it takes to make patterns and machining,and foundry cost, most do not want to pay for what it would cost, been down this road.


Kevin Pharis
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Re: Anyone ever seen a Miller T head ?

Post by Kevin Pharis » Tue Dec 01, 2020 10:03 pm

Joe Bell wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 9:35 pm
The time it takes to make patterns and machining,and foundry cost, most do not want to pay for what it would cost, been down this road.
You definitely are not wrong... this is not an adventure for the timid. Many of the obscure items are reproduced simply because of the obsessive nature of a few interested folks with the time, skill, and sometimes funds to bring it all to fruition. While the mainstream reproduction parts are the better business decisions, they are not near as fun!

I have been caught in this trap several times... and my only regret is not doing it sooner! The naysayers spooked me a number of times early on, and so wound up putting a number of projects on hold. I couldn’t possibly recover the time invested to bring most of my projects to life, but the process puts a smile on my face, as well as all the customers that are excited that I went thru the effort.

That Miller head definitely falls into the “thumbs up” category, and I wish you luck on your adventure. I hope you share your progress with us... take criticism with a grain of salt and don’t let it deter your progress

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John Warren
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Re: Anyone ever seen a Miller T head ?

Post by John Warren » Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:09 am

I am looking forward to seeing this happen, it would be great to have available. Thumbs up from me.
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Re: Anyone ever seen a Miller T head ?

Post by Model T Tom » Sun Dec 06, 2020 12:52 pm

I'm moving ahead any body interested about $500. Depending on response. Great for speedster.


Kevin Pharis
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Re: Anyone ever seen a Miller T head ?

Post by Kevin Pharis » Sun Dec 06, 2020 5:10 pm

Model T Tom wrote:
Sun Dec 06, 2020 12:52 pm
I'm moving ahead any body interested about $500. Depending on response. Great for speedster.
Excellent news! I would be interested for sure👍

Can you tell us a bit about the plan... will there be any laser scanning or 3D printing involved? Will you have any hard tooling to produce more in the future? Will they be rough cast? Fully machined?

Sorry bout all the questions...

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Re: Anyone ever seen a Miller T head ?

Post by Susanne » Sun Dec 06, 2020 5:16 pm

I think it'd be a fun head to play with, especialy with the magical Miller name... :D I'd love to see what the underside looks like as well... what the combustion chamber looks (or will look) like...

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Re: Anyone ever seen a Miller T head ?

Post by Michael Peternell » Sun Dec 06, 2020 9:10 pm

I'm interested!


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Re: Anyone ever seen a Miller T head ?

Post by ModelTWoods » Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:52 am

I think all of us would like to see more pictures of it from the top, bottom, and sides; also, how does it compare to a Z or Prus head in performance? Showing pictures and providing these answers would probably spur interest. If you are miles away from the head, I can understand why these things are hindered.


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Re: Anyone ever seen a Miller T head ?

Post by SIR TIMOTHY » Mon Dec 07, 2020 12:13 pm

Tom, you can put me on the list for one. Tim in Omaha


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Model T Tom
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Re: Anyone ever seen a Miller T head ?

Post by Model T Tom » Mon Dec 07, 2020 12:14 pm

Couple more pictures I have to go to Detroit and take the head off for the pattern maker
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Mike Penserini
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Re: Anyone ever seen a Miller T head ?

Post by Mike Penserini » Sun Dec 13, 2020 1:51 pm

Hi Tom - I'm also interested in the Miller head , Please add me to your list.


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Re: Anyone ever seen a Miller T head ?

Post by pete eastwood » Sun Dec 13, 2020 3:11 pm

Add me to the list too !


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Re: Anyone ever seen a Miller T head ?

Post by big2bird » Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:18 pm

I would be interested.


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Re: Anyone ever seen a Miller T head ?

Post by SMHnat » Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:02 pm

If you are headed to detroit for these heads, are you going to EDL Services LLC in Troy? They own the Harry A. Miller Inc. and are building the burden miller car for Stahls Collection. They have a hell of a collection of patterns.

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Mark Gregush
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Re: Anyone ever seen a Miller T head ?

Post by Mark Gregush » Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:45 am

I read the above post as the Miller name is owned by someone, maybe also the rights to the design. Something to think about before moving ahead.
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

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Re: Anyone ever seen a Miller T head ?

Post by big2bird » Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:04 am

Mark Gregush wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:45 am
I read the above post as the Miller name is owned by someone, maybe also the rights to the design. Something to think about before moving ahead.
Surely the patent has expired.

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Re: Anyone ever seen a Miller T head ?

Post by Barry Loucks » Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:07 pm

Another thing to consider is the copyright on the Miller name cast into the head. I’m thinking that would be a nice feature to have on a reproduction head.
Copyright permission would be nice to have.

Oh, and count me in for one when they’re made.

Barry

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Re: Anyone ever seen a Miller T head ?

Post by DanTreace » Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:17 pm

There is currently a Miller High Speed Head Co., mfg. overheads for Model A speed guys.

https://www.millerhi-speedheads.com/products.html


Perhaps the Miller name is lost to public usage now, or if someone/company has the name "Miller" trademarked today for application to cylinder heads for autos, a summary USA trade name search would find that out.

Neat project to undertake ;)
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Re: Anyone ever seen a Miller T head ?

Post by Kevin Pharis » Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:28 pm

The concern over copyright or patent infringements is relative to the intended scale of operation. No doubt any patents ran out many years ago, but copyright could be renewed and still maintained. But this concern would all be relative to the intentions of whoever owns the Miller name, and whether this head design is included in their collection, and if this design is specifically copyrighted. I doubt the head itself would be copyrighted, but possible that the logo is.

If you only intend to make a handful of parts to justify and distribute the cost of a small one time production for personal use... I would not concern myself with any infringement.

If you intend to adopt the Miller name as your business name, and distribute long term high profile production of these heads... you could be opening a can of worms, and would be worth a few minutes of googling. Or just change the logo slightly 😉


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Re: Anyone ever seen a Miller T head ?

Post by big2bird » Fri Dec 18, 2020 2:07 pm

Cast the name SMILLERS, then you can grind the two S letters off.😉

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Re: Anyone ever seen a Miller T head ?

Post by Barry Loucks » Fri Dec 18, 2020 2:53 pm

I’m not an expert in copyright infringement but I don’t think changing the name a little to try to get around it works.
What does work is getting permission to use it and if necessary pay the cost to do so. It avoids possible litigation after the fact. If the copyright owner wanted $100’s to use it per head then that makes it easy.
Just don’t add it!
With the technology developed for combustion chamber design in the last century it would be very cool to improve the chamber and put the financier’s name on it if the Miller name isn’t going to work.

Barry


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Re: Anyone ever seen a Miller T head ?

Post by Dan McEachern » Fri Dec 18, 2020 3:56 pm

If there is a concern regarding the name, call Steve Serr and discuss the issue with him. The appeal to me would be a head that duplicates the original appearance including the lettering.

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Re: Anyone ever seen a Miller T head ?

Post by Barry Loucks » Fri Dec 18, 2020 4:51 pm

Dan, I’m with you. I’d want the Miller name in the same place as the original head. What we don’t want is the grief around using a copyright without permission.
It’s easy. Just ask the question. The answer will be no you can’t use it, or yes you can use it for free, but the most likely answer is yes you can use it for a fee. The guy with copyright probably would like to make some money. I’d guess he would make a deal. Hopefully it’s a reasonable number.

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Re: Anyone ever seen a Miller T head ?

Post by Mark Gregush » Fri Dec 18, 2020 5:02 pm

I was not trying to create a firestorm, just made a suggestion of something to think about. I did not want to upset anyone and am sorry if I did.
Mark
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

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Re: Anyone ever seen a Miller T head ?

Post by Barry Loucks » Fri Dec 18, 2020 5:12 pm

Mark no firestorm here. I’d love one of these heads with Miller on it. If it gets done without surprising the copyright owner that means less grief. Then everyone is happy.
I remember the head with the Ford script that had to be ground off. Nobody wants to go there.

Barry


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Re: Anyone ever seen a Miller T head ?

Post by Kerry » Fri Dec 18, 2020 5:42 pm

If I remember correctly, it was Parker that got a smack for that, I still have one of his low heads with the Ford script on it.

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