Where do Hood Former Legs Land?

[ivaldes1]

Hi, I am fitting the firewall and hood former. Where should the 'legs' of the hood former align with the frame? I can widen the hood former legs or compress the legs some. What is the correct position? Also how high off the frame should the hood former be to accommodate the engine mounts sliding underneath?

[Wayne Sheldon]

Engine mounts/brackets do not slide under this type firewall or brackets.
Hole locations can be found on frame research posted in years past. I will take a few minutes and see if I can find the link.

[Wayne Sheldon]

That didn't take long. I thought I had re-found the thread since my computer's partial meltdown a few years ago, but wasn't sure.

Mark Herdman did considerable research quite awhile back, and posted this thread about eight years ago.
The diagrams/charts are a bit difficult to follow, but give pretty good information about most of the early frames. Upper right corner of each diagram has the frame series number, so find one appropriate for the car you are building. Another issue for some people, Mark H is in either Australia or New Zealand (shame upon me for forgetting which!), so measurements are in metric. Some people have difficulty dealing with metric measurements, but I have always been comfortable with them.
His diagrams helped me a few years ago when I was sorting out a couple frames I had to find the most appropriate one for a couple of my projects.

[Wayne Sheldon]

Might help if I actually posted the link?

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/33 ... 1366444998

Guess I need to go take a nap?

[DanTreace]

Since you are building a speedster, correct factory isn't needed. IMO, mount and screw on that hood former last.

Use the tall brackets for the wood firewall, you can notch the lower inboard edges of the firewall for clearance of the crankcase arms. Also if you are adding starter, make the starter side with a larger notch.

You'll find the body building easier with the engine in the chassis, and chassis up on wheels. The firewall determines the front body parts too.

Then when the body and firewall come together, best to do test fits of all before final assembly.

Engine in and more fitting.

Finally, fit the hood former, as it will ride above the wooden hood shelves anyway, plus you can align the former to the radiator to be sure the hood fits correctly.

[John kuehn]

Been following your speedster build with interest.
I think Dan T’s advice that building up the chassis and engine and getting it running is the best route to go.
Mounting the firewall, radiator setup, and engine paves the way to then fitting the hood and body as you want it. And since it’s a speedster or what some would call a custom build, fitting the body to the firewall would be easier it would seem. Then you could alter the hood, steering and etc body as needed if any.
After all that’s the way Ford built his cars on the assembly line making it the easiest way to put it all together.

[Allan]

The hood former should not be fitted until you have the radiator fitted in its final resting place and you have the hood in hand. Let the hood determine where the former lands. It does not need to be central. It does not need to be set at a particular height. It DOES need to be positioned so that the hood fits as best it can.
When you are ready to fit the hood, moving the former up, down, sideways allows you to get it set at a height and width for the best fit. I guarantee if you fit it first, you will have hood fit problems.
Hope this helps.

Allan from down under.

[speedytinc]

quote=DanTreace post_id=165602 time=1622846079 user_id=83]
Since you are building a speedster, correct factory isn't needed. IMO, mount and screw on that hood former last.

Use the tall brackets for the wood firewall, you can notch the lower inboard edges of the firewall for clearance of the crankcase arms. Also if you are adding starter, make the starter side with a larger notch.

You'll find the body building easier with the engine in the chassis, and chassis up on wheels. The firewall determines the front body parts too.

Then when the body and firewall come together, best to do test fits of all before final assembly.

100_3578 (864x929).jpg

Engine in and more fitting.

Install of dash filler Dec 06.jpg


Finally, fit the hood former, as it will ride above the wooden hood shelves anyway, plus you can align the former to the radiator to be sure the hood fits correctly.


Engine compartment.jpg
[/quote]
Note , in your firewall pix, there is no notch to clear the pan ears.
There would be no point to it. The early F/W brackets mount on top of the frame. Cant slide the ears on the frame without removing the firewall. The ears sit far enough behind the firewall to not interfere with it.
Or am I missing something?
Its unfortunate that later F/W brackets cant be used if sliding the engine and starter in & out was the goal. (Which i would prefer on a speedster.) Per the first pix, The later F/W brackets would interfere with the hood former. Those early F/W brackets Will get in the way for removing the starter as shown in pix 3 Thats a trade off.

[Steve Jelf]

The early F/W brackets mount on top of the frame. Cant slide the ears on the frame without removing the firewall.

Correct. When removing the engine from my 1915 I unbolt the brackets from the frame, remove the front four body-to-frame bolts, and set the body up on a pair of 2 x 4 blocks. That leaves plenty of room for the pan ears to slide out, and I don't have to remove the firewall from the body.

[MWalker]

First of all, be sure that your frame is straight, while you're still able to get to the top inside edges of it using a string. If it's not straight, nothing else will fit right. Most frame rails have a sag where the crankcase ears rest.

[DanTreace]

John

Note , in your firewall pix, there is no notch to clear the pan ears.
There would be no point to it. The early F/W brackets mount on top of the frame. Cant slide the ears on the frame without removing the firewall.



You’re correct on removal of engine requires the dash brackets to be un-bolted and body lifted, forgot that.

Only the side mount brackets allow without removal, but notching of the fire wall does help removing a starter on early firewall. Just hard to see in my photo, but right at the inner edge of the bracket is a notch cut in the lower end of the firewall. That helps the upper corner of the starter housing to clear the firewall.

[R.V.Anderson]

According to John Regan, mounting the hood support to the firewall is simple if the dash, frame, and brackets are all correct Ford. His method: just center the support side to side on the dash, then lay a piece of 1x stock (3/4" thick) on each side of the frame. Rest the support on them and drill for the screws. Size is #10 x 5/8". Easy to remember the size because there are 10 of them. The hood will automatically fit perfectly if it's straight and correct, the frame is straight, and if the radiator is also properly mounted.

FWIW, factory photos of 1914 cars clearly show that the screw heads are polished brass, not painted or "raven finished."

[Allan]

RV, that's a lot of "ifs"! I'd like to add another. If any one of your list of ifs is off, it will throw the fit off too.

The only way I could get the hood to fit on my 1915 was to shift the hole in the metal former. It went both sideways and up before the back edge of the hood would line up. I had to fill the original hole with a solid plug and re-drill that plug. It made for a better job anyway because the rod was far better supported rather than in the thin metal of the former.
On my 1912 Van, the fix was easier. The whole former was just jiggled to suit the best position, then screwed in place.It was about 3/8" off centre, with the height adjusted to fit.

Allan from down under.