Have You Hank Cranked Both a Model T and Model A?

MichaelPawelek · Post by **MichaelPawelek** » Tue Dec 21, 2021 8:15 pm

Some of us have both Model T’s and Model A’s. I’ve hand cranked all my Model T’s but have never thought of trying it on my 160A. Considering the different crank design and difference in compression how hard is it to start a Model A with the hand crank? With my arthritis I doubt I’d ever try….

Post by **DHort** » Tue Dec 21, 2021 8:23 pm

Michael,

I see how you crank a Model T and a Model A in the first picture. One with the right hand and one with the left hand. Do you have to be ambidextrous to do them together or does it just take practice?

I cannot figure out how you do it with the second picture unless you have some very long arms.

Post by **TXGOAT2** » Tue Dec 21, 2021 8:27 pm

The Model A should start easily with the crank, but do be careful to adjust the spark lever properly and be sure the car is out of gear and the parking brake firmly set. The A engine has a little more displacement and has a little more compression, but it also has a huge, heavy flywheel and virtually no drag from the clutch or transmission. The crank arrangement is not as well designed as the T, and is probably not meant for routine use. In addition, the A has no magneto and so it will require at least some charge in the battery, and you'll never get a free start. I think the A carb has a place to put a choke wire for choking the engine from out front.

Post by **TXGOAT2** » Tue Dec 21, 2021 8:29 pm

"I cannot figure out how you do it with the second picture unless you have some very long arms."

A well-trained octopus is good to have....

MichaelPawelek · Post by **MichaelPawelek** » Tue Dec 21, 2021 8:39 pm

Sounds as if some in the group have been hitting the eggnog a bit early…..

Post by **DHort** » Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:00 pm

Think I can sit down with Hank and share this?
You are welcome too, Michael.

: eggnog.jpg (7.84 KiB) Viewed 4027 times

Erik Johnson · Post by **Erik Johnson** » Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:01 pm

There's a fellow who lives near me with an unrestored Model A coupe with a rebuilt engine.

I've seen him crank start it a few times at the annual 4th of July car show - it took very little effort. However, the engine was most likely warm when he did it. Don't know if he has ever tried a cold start with the hand crank.

There are a few YouTube videos demonstrating hand cranking a Model A.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... +a%22+ford

Norman Kling · Post by **Norman Kling** » Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:08 pm

I had many Model A's many years ago. I could go a long way after the battery was worn out. I just crank started it. There was usually enough charge to run the ignition system, but not the starter. Even my wife would crank it. Our son who was only about 5 years old knew how to pull the choke while she was cranking.
Norm

MichaelPawelek · Post by **MichaelPawelek** » Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:12 pm

DHort wrote: ↑
Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:00 pm
Think I can sit down with Hank and share this?
You are welcome too, Michael.

eggnog.jpg

Thank you David. Drank enough Southern Comfort in my early years to sink a freighter but have been in AA for 34 years. I will have a warm cup of 10W30 though in your honor!

Post by **signsup** » Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:29 pm

Here is a short video of me crank starting my WWI Model T and my WWII Ford GPW jeep nose to nose. Some things did not change much for Ford over 30 years.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EprgURJsoEk

Mountainrider · Post by **Mountainrider** » Wed Dec 22, 2021 5:56 am

I don’t have a Model A, but our Fire Association does have a 23 Peter Pirsch Fire engine on a REO Speedwagon chassis. It’s one of the easiest starting vehicles. I’ve hand cranked it with one pull even after sitting quiet for 6 months.

Kurt in NJ · Post by **Kurt in NJ** » Wed Dec 22, 2021 8:21 am

I hand crank my A often, easy cold, hot except when real hot and in the heat soak --15 min to 45 after good run ,I know to not give demonstrations.
I was worried when I first got the T, it cranked like stirring cold molasses even though it had no compression, now that I changed the oil and filled the cylinders and let it soak down, took the transmission cover off and poured oil on the bands and into the clutch --it loosened up , but still not as easy as the A, I used 5w30 synthetic
The A with a diode cutout can make enough generator voltage to make a weak spark hand cranking, enough to start when battery only had 2 volts

Post by **TXGOAT2** » Wed Dec 22, 2021 9:21 am

Kurt: Does your Model A have the early style "powerhouse" generator?

Norman Kling · Post by **Norman Kling** » Wed Dec 22, 2021 10:22 am

One of the problems with crank starting the A when the battery is old is when driving at night with the lights on. If one stops for a signal or stop sign you must keep the engine running fast enough to keep the generator charging or it will stop. Happened to me in 1958 right at the corner of Fremont and Las Vegas Blvd. In those days before I-15, that was the main highway and center of downtown Las Vegas. Had to turn off lights and get out and crank the car.
Norm

Luke · Post by **Luke** » Wed Dec 22, 2021 7:41 pm

I like cranking the T, somehow it seems 'proper' and part of the panoply, particularly when there's a crowd around who've never seen a car started this way.

On the other hand I don't like cranking the A. I'm not sure if it's just mine, but the crank handle seems a lot flimsier than the T's, and as it's got a bumper (ok, 'fender' for some!) I find it more difficult to get the right distance between me and the vehicle. Otherwise it's probably easier to crank cold than the T as it's really much better for me to lift one rear wheel in the T - no need when hot.

Amusingly perhaps, the first time I did crank my A was when I had to; the battery had gone flat during the day at work because the after-market indicators had stuck on. I wasn't happy 'cos I needed to be somewhere so was a little vocal about the bl**dy thing, there being no-one around on the back of the bikeshed I'd parked it against... as it happens it took quite a lot of cranking - the battery was very flat - and I got less and less happy as time and puff wore on and out. The dialogue continued, louder and more explicitly with one common word featuring, I'm sure it helped 'cos eventually it started.

After that I was able to circle the bikeshed and out the gate, but not before I noticed two fellows leaning against the other side of the bikeshed looking rather oddly at me...

Luke.

Post by **TXGOAT2** » Wed Dec 22, 2021 8:19 pm

I don't think the Model A and later Fords had a proper bushing for the crank to revolve in. I've seen a number of As and 30's Fords with damage around the crank hole where the hand crank contacted the sheet metal. I believe a crank was still included with the cars up until 1948. 1948-1952 pickups had a knockout crank hole in the front end sheet metal. The cranks got longer as cars got more stylish and it got farther from the grille to the crank pulley ratchet.

Norman Kling · Post by **Norman Kling** » Wed Dec 22, 2021 8:52 pm

On the Model A, there is a pin which sticks out of the timing gear cover and to time the car, you remove the pin and insert it into the hole with the rounded end toward the gear. Then you rotate the engine until the pin fits into an indentation in the gear. That is the spot to set the distributor for adjustment with the spark lever up. It is much easier to put the transmission in neutral and rotate the crank while holding the pin. The other way would be to leave the car in high gear and roll the car until the pin fits in. So that might be one reason that Ford left the crank hole. The crank is actually the opposite end of the wheel lug wrench.
Norm

Post by **RajoRacer** » Wed Dec 22, 2021 9:54 pm

I always grabbed the fan to roll the engine over to verify the timing pin drop - I'm a bit on the "height challenged" side so grabbing the starting crank from the side was a "no-go" ! Can't recall if I ever started my '30 Coupe with the hand crank - starter always worked good !

Post by **Duey_C** » Thu Dec 23, 2021 12:27 am

Sure.
Friend's AA tuck was here to get running many years ago, yep used the timing pin to check.
Ring gear had some missing teeth so a crank start only.
Son (13 then) ran it around here a bunch. Nice running truck. Easily crank started.

david_dewey · Post by **david_dewey** » Thu Dec 23, 2021 2:50 am

When I was in high school, I couldn't afford a good battery for my A, so I hand cranked it whenever I couldn't find a hill to park on. They are easy to start with the crank--if you turn the gas and the ignition on! (I don't need to explain how I know that). When I drove it to the Long Beach Queen Mary national meet, the starter drive failed on the way home, and not having such parts with me, I just hand cranked it whenever I stopped so I could get home. Unlike the T, do NOT advance the spark three clicks when hand starting! As for free starts, I did get a few from it when the engine was new, but with about 500 miles on it. Just like the T, turn on the ignition and move the spark advance and pow! It only did that for about a month though.

Norman Kling · Post by **Norman Kling** » Thu Dec 23, 2021 11:47 am

david_dewey wrote: ↑
Thu Dec 23, 2021 2:50 am
When I was in high school, I couldn't afford a good battery for my A, so I hand cranked it whenever I couldn't find a hill to park on. They are easy to start with the crank--if you turn the gas and the ignition on! (I don't need to explain how I know that). When I drove it to the Long Beach Queen Mary national meet, the starter drive failed on the way home, and not having such parts with me, I just hand cranked it whenever I stopped so I could get home. Unlike the T, do NOT advance the spark three clicks when hand starting! As for free starts, I did get a few from it when the engine was new, but with about 500 miles on it. Just like the T, turn on the ignition and move the spark advance and pow! It only did that for about a month though.

When you wrote of turning on the gas it reminded me of a trick a friend played on me. I had a 29 Coupe. We were driving along and all of a sudden the engine stopped. I thought it was ignition problems and I got out and monkeyed with the distributor, and he said, "let me see if I can start it" It started right up! As I was driving along, he had quietly raised his foot and turned off the gas. And when I had the hood open, I couldn't see that he was turning on the gas!
Norm

Post by **TXGOAT2** » Thu Dec 23, 2021 11:57 am

A friend had a 348 Chevrolet with a 3 two-barrel intake. Another kid had a 327 4 barrel in a similar car. They decided to "compete for speed" as the cops used to say, and sometime prior to the match, someone loosened the linkage pivots so as to disable 2 of the carburetors on the 348. The 327 won handily. The sabotage was discovered next day, and the match repeated, and the results reversed. No blood was shed, but the 327 kid had issues a few days later with his car that eventually proved to be pencil tracks inside the distributor cap.

Post by **J1MGOLDEN** » Fri Dec 24, 2021 8:31 pm

I have owned and hand cranked both, but only the 1917 Model T engine ever backfired hard enough to throw me face down in the driveway, give me road rash under my chin and on my cheek, along with a fat lip, with a badly swollen abdomen, and knocking me unconscious for an unknown period of time.

My wrists were sore and both thumbs were out of joint from the hard landing and the most painful part, but no bones were broken.

I was totally back to normal, after only two months of misery.

Erik Barrett · Post by **Erik Barrett** » Sat Dec 25, 2021 5:24 pm

I have done both and many others. I cranked my 26 Buick a lot in high school. The biggest I have cranked up is a 1917 American LaFrance T-head six. Over 900 cubic inch displacement. I have also started a Caterpillar 60 with a crowbar in the flywheel notches. The compression release helped on both of those. Any engine you are strong enough to pull past TDC will start when tuned right. That meaning fuel, compression, ignition, and timing are all correct.

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Have You Hank Cranked Both a Model T and Model A?

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