Wheel Studs

[CatGuy]

Just about all of my car's wheel studs are loose. I don't understand it. Some have been welded on....unsuccessfully. It looks like only about 3 are actually holding on each hub. Maybe only 2. No idea why that would happen. So, can these be welded on or is it best to get new studs and have them professionally pressed on? Will they just come back off again?

[TRDxB2]

The wire wheel studs are splined and have a flat side to mate with a tab on the inside on the hub. So the question is if the hole that the stud goes has been compromised. So before anyone can answer it would be best to see the backside of the drum and what the issues are.

Good studs

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Good try but......

[speedytinc]

Studs drop in. They get pressed on a stepped lip under the threads. Takes a hollow press tool to slip over the threads & hit the stepped shoulder. That shoulder gets smashed/expanded to hold in place. Same as model A's.

[CatGuy]

That second picture represents what the back of the front hubs look like.

[TRDxB2]

That second picture represents what the back of the front hubs look like.

If the studs are loose will they pull out or spin? Trying to understand what is meant by loose. What do the lug holes in your wheels look like. The backside of should have a lip

[TXGOAT2]

Your car may have been run with the lug nuts loose. Or someone may not have known the right way to replace the studs. Or they may not be the right studs. When you say the studs are loose, do you mean they are so loose that they turn in the hub when you try to tighten the lug nuts? You should be able to run the lug nuts on with your fingers until they contact the wheel hub.

[CatGuy]

They are loose in the holes of the hubs. I can't tighten down the lug nuts. They won't pull straight out. On the front ones I can reach behind and press on them with my fingers and get them reasonably tight, but not the back ones.

[TXGOAT2]

That's a mess. The cheap and dirty route may be to remove both rear hubs and put the wheels on them and pull all the lug nuts up reasonabley tight, then have the lug bolts welded on the back of the hub. That's a very poor way to do a repair, but if the holes in your hub flanges are oversize, you may not have much choice. It's normally difficult to get the rear hubs off the axles. If you were able to easily get one of your rerar hubs off the car, you may have problems there, too. Wheels can be damaged around the lug nut holes by being run loose. Obviously, the wheels, hubs, and lug bolts and nuts should be in good condition to prevent a nasty situation, like a wheel coming off while going down the road from happening. Driving the car with loose lug nuts will cause serious problems. Besides the safety issue, it will damage or destroy the hubs, lugs, and wheels in short order.

[DanTreace]

They are loose in the holes of the hubs. I can't tighten down the lug nuts. They won't pull straight out. On the front ones I can reach behind and press on them with my fingers and get them reasonably tight, but not the back ones.

The front studs with the flange is designed to press in the hub hole, and the cut flange head rests against the hub inner rim, and is to prevent twisting should the stud was to spin. Sometimes they spin, (note the one in the photo) and weld is one fix. The repair is a new stud with flange head and with splines to bite into the worn hole when pressed in the hub.

Image 6-15-22 at 11.50 AM.jpeg (31.23 KiB) Viewed 2738 times

The rear wire wheel hub uses similar, pressed in studs, but the flange of the stud back is nested in the tab of the rear drum.

rear wire hub bolts.jpg (58.4 KiB) Viewed 2738 times

[Norman Kling]

Order a new set of bolts and then try to remove the old ones. A machine shop might be needed to do it. Try to find someone in your local club to refer you to someone knowledgeable in Model T Fords.
Unfortunately the hubs for the wire rims are quite hard to find and expensive. If they can be salvaged with the new bolts, that is good. I have not had experience with welding and re drilling the hub, but that might be the way to go. Use one of your wheels for a template, because the holes must be in exactly the right condition to hold the hubs centered and straight.
Norm

[CatGuy]

That's a mess. The cheap and dirty route may be to remove both rear hubs and put the wheels on them and pull all the lug nuts up reasonabley tight, then have the lug bolts welded on the back of the hub. That's a very poor way to do a repair, but if the holes in your hub flanges are oversize, you may not have much choice. It's normally difficult to get the rear hubs off the axles. If you were able to easily get one of your rerar hubs off the car, you may have problems there, too. Wheels can be damaged around the lug nut holes by being run loose. Obviously, the wheels, hubs, and lug bolts and nuts should be in good condition to prevent a nasty situation, like a wheel coming off while going down the road from happening. Driving the car with loose lug nuts will cause serious problems. Besides the safety issue, it will damage or destroy the hubs, lugs, and wheels in short order.

It certainly is! It's been quite an experience. It's all my fault. I bought the car from another state and never saw anything but pictures. I never asked enough questions, either. Lessons learned. Realistically I'm not sure if I want to keep on keepin' on or sell it off. I'm playing 'phone tag' with a couple local guys that are 'T' experts so I might get some help soon. It would be neat to drive one in good condition. I didn't think that now the holes are probably so big they won't hold the studs.....

[Dan Hatch]

Just went through this with a local T person. They got some old stock studs from me and the studs installed fine. Studs were installed correctly, they pressed just fine. Nice and tight. The person went to do another hub with newly purchased replacement studs and could not get them tight.
Turns out the new studs were under size at the shoulder. No matter how hard you pressed them would not swell up and get tight. Bet that is what happened here. So someone welded them.
This person got studs from another source and was able to correct the problem. Maybe be able here too. Dan

[TXGOAT2]

Someone with experience to look at your car will be a great help. No one was born experienced. You are in the process of becoming experienced. You bought a car with some problems. That often happens to people who buy century old cars. The car needs certain things to run reliabley and perform well. I believe you'll enjoy it when you get it sorted out.

[speedytinc]

Studs drop in. They get pressed on a stepped lip under the threads. Takes a hollow press tool to slip over the threads & hit the stepped shoulder. That shoulder gets smashed/expanded to hold in place. Same as model A's.

Snyders sells the new studs. they get swedged in place. Snyders sells the tool also. Note that they are not splined as modern wheel studs are.

If memory serves, several years ago, I repaired/restored a few WW hub sets. I tried to find splined replacement studs thru Napa. There was nothing close enough to work as a replacement. I dont think T style studs were available, so I modified A studs.
Also, as I recall early WW hubs didnt have a flat on the heads to prevent turning when loose. They had to hold their press/swedge to not turn.
Hence, you see many of the early style in particular that have been welded on.

CatGuy, you are learning the hard lesson, that buying a T is a pig in a poke. They all have issues. Even "restored" ones cant be trusted to be done right.
All you can do is buy it cheap enough & fix the wrongs. You need the ability to fix the problems/issues yourself or they get really expensive to make/keep running.

[TXGOAT2]

New cars ain't cheap, either... and they have, or will have, problems too.

[Norman Kling]

That is a small problem compared to some. One I bought had a problem with the transmission which finally led to a rebuild. Another one had many problems until I got it reliable. And we learn as we go along, what works and what doesn't. Sometimes have to pull the engine a couple times before getting it right.
Many times it is actually better to spend more and fix more things than to fix just one thing and have the thing I fixed wear out fast because it is mated to something else which needs to be fixed. This is a hobby to learn and to have fun and pride in, but not one to make money. And one to make friends and have fellowship is a good part of the fun.
Norm

[TRDxB2]

Always remember that Model T's are used cars that were used cars that were abused cars that were repaired with available parts, iron and uby people with various skills and skill levels, not necessarily automotive, before you got it

[Chuck Regan]

CatGuy - I found a couple loose wheel studs on the front wire wheel hubs on my ‘26. My hub holes were not wallowed out - just the stud heads and the swedge surfaces worn enough to keep me from tightening the wheel nuts. The top photo shows that even a stud that’s tight does not have a lot material keeping the stud head from turning. The bottom photo shows the small tig weld I used to allow tightening the nut.

[Craig Leach]

Many times swedged wheel studs are improperly replaced by driving the swedge thru the hub without first cutting it off. There are cutters for this but quite expensive. before I got the cutter I used a 5/8" hole saw with the drill removed, the ID is very close to 1/2" and will remove enough to get the stud out without adversely effecting the hole in the hub. If the holes are already enlarged there are studs made in many sizes that can securely pressed
into the hub but the knurl will most likely be to long for a hub with no or a thin brake drum. here in is the challenge. you can turn down the knurl in a lathe and thread them more so the nut will not bottom on the stud leaving the wheel loose. An other help is the Model A suppliers sell A-1012-w wheel nut washers that space the nut out a little ( they are also great for worn wheel holes ) This is what I had to do on a set of A hubs I'm going to use on a speedster and a pic of the cutter.

wheel studs.jpg (18.82 KiB) Viewed 2609 times

Craig.