Frame Question

[Original Smith]

How many years after they started using the new style muffler in 1914, did they continue drilling holes in the top frame rail for the 1913 and earlier mufflers?

[Wayne Sheldon]

I thought the two bolt mounted mufflers went into 1917 at least? I know my 1915 has that. However it had been messed with so much that anything could have been changed?
I have seen later 1910s frames with battery box holes and two muffler holes. So frame drilling for the muffler would seem to have continued to early 1919 at least?

[TXGOAT2]

I think most or all factory frame holes are punched, not drilled. It would probably not pay to alter manufacturing equipment to stop punching obsolete holes.

[Allan]

Not only were they punched, it was done while the rail blank was still flat, prior to being formed into its U shape. Frames were punched for fitting the battery carrier on either side, even though it could never be fitted with the battery on the right due to the exhaust system.

Allan from down under.

[Wayne Sheldon]

You are of course correct Allan! They are punched, not drilled. I do know better, but get lazy sometimes.
I wonder if your Canadian frames were done differently? Our USA frames do not generally have the battery box holes for the battery side of the box punched into the muffler side frame rail. With the exception of a speedster later drilled for a battery mounted where the exhaust no longer was? I cannot recall ever seeing a USA frame with extra battery box holes on the right hand side.

The silly thing for me, is that my 1915 frame had battery box holes in it. However, they were apparently drilled, and a bit off from the usual location. Apparently a later addition to the car the frame had previously come from. The frame had clearly also used the pre 1916 firewall brackets long enough for vibration to wear the footprint into the top of the frame rail! Many odd things happened to some of our cars over the past hundred plus years!

[Allan]

Wayne, it is likely a Canadian thing. Because they were producing cars for LHD and RHD markets, it made sense for all the rails to be stamped the same on both sides. Hence, on later frames for battery style electric cars each rail was stamped for the battery carrier, the fuel tank mounting brackets, the handbrake quadrant and the lower steering bracket. That means that when the rails are pressed into their U shape, they were mirror images of each other. The battery carrier holes are of course used in only one orientation, whereas the others are used as required. I missed mentioning an extra hole in the top of the frame rail to accept the starter switch bracket, on on each side, aft of the front running board support bracket.

Allan from down under.

[Wayne Sheldon]

Allan B, Yes, that does make sense!
I enjoy reading about the Canadian differences. Just more to enjoy about the model T!

[nsbrassnut]

Just a side note.

Canadian T frames were not always punched with the same holes on both sides. During the early years there were distinct LHD and RHD frame rails where the steering mounting holes and the brake quadrant holes are only one one side of the frame. The parts book even lists them with different part numbers up to at least 1915.

I believe there was a much earlier post from one of the Australia T people which included a very detailed study of the frame holes for the Canadian T frames. My '15 RHD only has the steering holes and brake quadrant holes on the right hand side frame rail and none on the left.

Later around '17(?) they started to punch both rails with the same holes for steering and brake quadrant on both sides of the frame and they became "universal fit" frames.

Drive Safe
Jeff

[Wayne Sheldon]

And we are still looking for Larry Smith's answer!

[Original Smith]

There are other instances where Ford had holes for earlier parts than the current model, even into the 1920's.