1913 and 1927 questions

[Wisch79]

Hello all! I am planning to go look at a couple Model Ts in the next couple days. I was told the one is a 1913 and the other is a 1927. Both are "ran when parked" a few years ago. I am wondering what I should look for or check on. I am new to model ts but have had several 50s cars. Also, what would be a ball park price on them? I think they want to sell as a pair, so I would probably keep one and sell one if I got them. Unfortunately these are all the pics i have at the moment.

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[George N Lake Ozark]

Any history on mechanical work done is always nice to have. IE; receipts from rebuilder and such .

On my car , dad bought a nicely and correct home restored car, an older restoration but the engine and drivetrain worked so it wasn't rebuilt.
Dad ended up having a complete rebuild of engine/trans and axle a few years later after he broke something.
So research as much as you can. Not a bad idea to take a club member with you and check local chapter members if they know the cars and any history.

[ironhorse]

The 27 roadster has what looks like a "Brass" radiator shell which would be incorrect. I cant tell about the color because that could be a bad photo.
The "13" looks like it has 11" brake drums which would indicate the wrong rear end ( it may even be a "Bitsa" car that means it is a compilation of several different years of cars which would drive the value down) Since you are new to the "T" affliction I would strongly suggest you get in touch with a local club and have one of them go with you there is so much to look for you need help to get a fair price. YMMV
Being from Indiana there are a lot of experts in that area go here for more info
http://www.mtfca.com/clubpages/chapters.htm#in

[RajoRacer]

NOT a '13 Runabout - later teens body with added on "early" parts - radiator, fenders lights, etc.

[George House]

Buy the ‘27 and have fun with it and leave the “””13””” alone. The body has a dash so it’s at least a ‘22. Probably not a correct engine because no teacup oil drain. I concur - it’s been pieced together. But that might mean you can buy it on the cheap. Pieced out, the “””13””” would be worth $1100...

[Scott_Conger]

Who knows? Maybe the price is right for both. The "13" looks like maybe a cutoff later touring as there is no fairing to flow the turtle deck into. Pan's wrong, cowl/hood interface is wrong...not much right. There is a small chance it could be made to run with minimal $$, but that's a long shot. It is what you'd end up with if you drug a magnet through a junkyard in 1950. That said, there are lots of those kind of Ts running around out there, so there is a market for them at the right price. The later car looks more "there" but you don't know until you see in person.

I love "ran when parked". They usually did...at least in some fashion...it's the following 20 years that's problematic.

[JTT3]

Wow, it appears the 13 roadster is grossly overstated as a 13, lots of non 13 parts including well just about all of it, maybe even the radiator. The turtle deck which is a late 23-25, the tub is not 13 but they can call it any year they want as long as the price is right.

[DanTreace]

Agree on that so-called ‘13’.

The 27 seems better, 5 wires, bumpers, ...but body painted over shows lots of Bondo lower bucket and fenders seem rough.
Top is wrong, irons at body odd, and top boot is too thin to have folded top and irons under it.

Both need in person checkout to make any valued offer.

[Wayne Sheldon]

The "'13" needs to be split apart and build three cars out of it! Of course one would need to buy nearly enough parts to build three cars to do it. Basically, it is just a pile of parts of no particular year. Someone that really knows model T parts would need to look it over closely to determine what pieces should go to what car. Real cheap, or leave it.
The yellow(?) roadster looks much better. However there are some obvious condition issues, so it would need to be fairly cheap also.
Personally, I dislike appraising other people's cars. However, I would say that unless the yellow car has really good reasons to believe it is truly sound mechanically (Very doubtful!)? It is only worth around $5000. As I said about the "'13"? Just a pile of parts. Maybe $7000 for both. Unless of course it turns out to have a 1911 or earlier engine hiding under that hood.

[Mark Gregush]

From what I can see, the so called 13 looks to have a 24/25 body by the shape of the cowl.

[Scott_Conger]

Mark

I agree on the cowl...and something I didn't notice before is that the turtle deck looks so odd because it is sitting up high on some sort of platform. Later model top supports seem to be coming out of the side so perhaps my earlier supposition of it being a touring cutoff was in error. Still, it's quite a mess of parts.

[Bob McDaniel]

Comments so far are right on. 13 may or may not have any parts from 1913 on it from the pictures, fenders, lights, radiator, maybe 13. Hood 15/16, wheels are later demountable type. The body looks like it could be the rear half of a later year touring body grafted onto a cowl from maybe another car and a turtle deck added. It may look good to some but very little value even in parts unless the running gear/ engine turns out to be early T.

The 27 could be something but needs to be looked over considering the same owner as the 13 and could be another one to need close inspection. A lot depends on what you are looking for and what the asking price is. Take along someone that knows what to look for and decide for yourself after they point out what is wrong and what is right on the cars. Parts can be found if the price is in the ballpark to start with. 26/27 parts are more common than 13 parts and prices reflect that when looking for missing parts.

What part of Indiana are you in? I would be willing to help if close by Logansport but you may find someone closer to you.

[Humblej]

Jeremy,
You asked for a ball park figure, but as you can see from the responses, that is hard to do just going by a couple of pictures. Such important considerations like do they run, are there titles, do engine numbers match the title, are the engine numbers correct for the year, not knowing these things make a ball park estimate meaningless. We can see from the pictures that the 27 has potential and the 13 is not a 13 and is the sort of car that has no value except to part out or to pass along to an unsuspecting unknowledgeable buyer. I would further caution, that if that seller is representing that patch work quilt as a 1913 and is asking anything more than the nominal value of the best parts, he is committing fraud. I second the caution suggested in an earlier response, that if the owner that built that 1913 is the same owner that restored the 1927, the 27 is highly suspect. His honesty and quality of workmanship is bad and you should walk away at any price. Not knowing anything other than seeing the pictures, and assuming the 27 runs, drives, and has a correct title, $1700 for the "13", $7500 for the 27, or, $8k for both.

[Wisch79]

I appreciate everyone's time and response. I tbink I am going to pass on these and wait for another one to come along. Thanks for all the help in identifying what to look for.