Grandpa's Model T

[CatGuy]

Sorry, no pictures. I was reading what my grandma had written about grandpa buying a Model T. He was 18 in 1923 and bought a brand new '23 Runabout. Not much was written about the car except how to drive it. He did splurge and buy an electric taillight. Is that to say that he most likely had owned a non-starter car or is there no way to really know from that? Just curious. I have a '26 Runabout, but consider getting one just like grandpa had. I hear the earlier T's have slightly more leg room?

[TWrenn]

Being an open car I believe starters were an option. But that wouldn't necessarily mean he couldn't have had the taillight.

[Art M]

My uncle, at age 20, bought a new 1922 model t roadster. He said that he didn't have the money to buy a starter or demountable wheels. This was the day I showed him my newly purchased 23 touring in 1977. I offered him and my aunt a ride. He declined. I think he had put up with more than he wanted with model T's.

I wish I had taken some pictures during the visit.

Art Mirtes

[Wayne Sheldon]

"Buying a tail light" could mean either an electric lamp to replace the oil lamp, in which case the car would have been a non-starter car. Or it could mean adding a stop lamp which could be added to either an electric or oil tail lamp, which could be either a starter or non-starter car.

Both the demountable rim wheels and the electrics package which included the starter were optional on open body cars beginning in 1919 all the way through 1927.
Although few people in the past half century restore them that way, studying era photographs clearly shows that a lot of cars were sold without one or both of those options.
I never really tried to do a statistical study on the subject, although if I had the time I think it could be very interesting. However, after looking very closely at literally thousands of era photographs, my feeling is that a lot more cars were sold with starters and without the demountable rim wheels than were sold with demountable wheels but no starter.
Most open cars by a significant margin got both. However, cars without the demountable rim wheels were far more common than most people today would think they were. To a much lesser extent, open cars were sold with demountable wheels but no starter. That of course based upon the cars with identifiable demountable wheels and oil lamps indicating no starter.

One needs to be careful when studying era photos, always on the lookout for cars that have had changes made. Pre1919 open cars with demountable wheels often try to sneak in. Usually, IF (the big IF again) the wheels can be identified as demountable rim wheels, USUALLY if they were after-market demountable rim wheels they can be identified as such (most of them have five lugs instead of four). But not always. And then there are the pre1919s that had genuine Ford Demountable rim wheels put on when a couple years old. Often, one cannot determine that from a photo. So errors will creep in.

While today, many hobbyists have added oil sidelamps because they like the "old timey" look? Back in the 1920s. practically NOBODY ever did that. So basically any open body T in a 1920s era photo with oil sidelamps will have been originally sold without the electrics package. It follows however, that there were some people that had the starter and parts added after a year or two of cranking the car by hand. And that detail usually cannot be seen in an era photo.

My hypothesis or opinion is that by 1920, tires and roads were both a lot better than they had been a mere five years before. Flat tires by today's standards were still quite common. But not nearly as bad as the few years before. By that time, the several times daily annoyance of cranking the engine was a bigger nuisance than the occasional roadside tire repair. Therefore, people scraping together the money to buy a new car were more likely to save a few dollars by doing without the demountable rim wheels than they wanted to do without the starter.

[got10carz]

I feel a 23 is much more comfortable than a 26. I have both. If you're short it may not matter.

[CatGuy]

Doing more reading.....'Don said in 1923 he bought a brand new Model T Roadster. The asking price was $323.00 and he paid $1.00 more to get an electric tail light, which was better than the kerosene tail light that came with it. The electric headlights came from a magneto built into the flywheel and transmission. The faster you traveled the brighter your lights.'
I suppose I'll never know how his car was outfitted as there are no known pictures. It would be neat to get one like his someday.

[Steve Jelf]

The electric headlights came from a magneto built into the flywheel and transmission. The faster you traveled the brighter your lights.

Magneto lights suggest that the car was sold without a starter and generator. A battery, if you wanted one to fire the coils, would be an add-on.

My experience with magneto lights is that if you drive fast enough to make them effective, you will outrun them.

[CatGuy]

And knowing my grandpa as I did, he was very good and very careful with his money! He would not have splurged.....unless it was for a $1.00 taillight....

[Scott C.]

I feel a 23 is much more comfortable than a 26. I have both. If you're short it may not matter.

This got me curious about the interior differences between the 23-25 and the 26-27 because there is a noticeable difference. You set lower in the body in the 26-27 plus the 23-25 sets up higher because the 26-27 chassis were lowered. So, I took some interior measurements form my 25 and 26 roadsters for comparison. Here are my results.
Foor to seat
1925 14"
1926 11"
Seat to dash
1925 16"
1926 11"
Seat to steering wheel
1925 7"
1926 9"
Depth of seat
1925 16"
1926 16"
Seat back to steering wheel
1925 14"
1926 13"
Seat back to dash
1925 33"
1926 28"
Seat width
1925 38"
1926 41"
Seat back height from seat
1925 16"
1926 18"
Seat riser to firewall
1925 25"
1926 25"
Floor to center of steering wheel nut
1925 28"
1926 28'

[CatGuy]

Very interesting comparison!

[Allan]

If anything, the comparisons show there is little difference, except where the dash to ---- is measured. Then the installation of the in-cowl gas tank and subsequent longer cowl reduce those measurements. These should have no real effect on the room for the driver.

That said, when I built my 1917 shooting brake, I was starting from scratch, so I didn't want to be crammed in like I am with my Chocolate van. I made the backrest for the front seat with adjustment in the rake. There is only 2.5" adjustment available, in 1/2" increments. I made the first setting in the middle of the range, and have never had to re-adjust it! A waste of time and effort? Perhaps, but when push comes to shove and I have to sell it, the new owner may well appreciate it.

Allan from down under.