She just went to pieces.
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pete eastwood
- Posts: 198
- Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:17 pm
- First Name: Pete
- Last Name: Eastwood
- Location: Southern Califiornia
Re: She just went to pieces.
in the last picture, the first car is a 1909 / 1910 model X Stevens-Duryea.
The model T next to it is a very early 1909 with the "square bill " front fenders!
The model T next to it is a very early 1909 with the "square bill " front fenders!
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Norman Kling
- Posts: 4634
- Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:39 pm
- First Name: Norman
- Last Name: Kling
- Location: Alpine California
Re: She just went to pieces.
I don't think that car in the first picture just went to pieces. The two children are younger than that car has been there!
Norm
Norm
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Wayne Sheldon
- Posts: 4249
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:13 pm
- First Name: Wayne
- Last Name: Sheldon
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1915 Runabout 1913 Speedster
- Location: Grass Valley California, USA
- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: She just went to pieces.
Third photo from the bottom is a 1915 or 1916 with a 1917 license plate and a decent look at the large flag decal that many people put on their car windshields in support of the country entering the War, or maybe it was our country first and stay out of the war? Both sentiments were running strong that year!
A couple other observations of that car. The sidelamps appear to be one of the early transitional lamps used on the few (less than fifty!) runabouts manufactured in December of 1914 and runabouts and touring cars during January and maybe February of 1915. My runabout was almost early enough that it could possibly have had such lamps. I have a tail-lamp in that style which I plan to use on it. The only obvious difference is that the font bowl is wider and flatter than the common ones that followed for more than ten years. The only pieces on those lamps that actually might interchange with the common 1915 and later lamps is the lens and bezel itself. EVERY other part in them is different from the lamps made only a couple months later. Even the brass top piece is different, the shape (slightly larger) and the size of the screw to mount it.
If they are the early transitional sidelamps, they should have had some shiny brass, however, the car being maybe almost three years old when the photo was taken, the brass may have tarnished enough to not stand out in the photo.
The second photo from the top is an early 1917 touring car. Pay special attention to the windshield on it. The obvious detail is that the windshield on this one has the even fold style hinges used throughout 1915 and 1916 open car production. Throughout the 1915 and 1916 model years, the windshield frame was riveted into the cowl mounting brackets. Earliest 1917s also had the windshield frame riveted into the cowl brackets! As far as I know, records do not tell accurately when the changes were made to the windshield frame during 1917. Empirical evidence including hundreds of photographs indicate that the even folding hinge was used for quite some while, possibly as much as six months (or only slightly less?) This is indicated by the large numbers of photos showing 1917s with even folding windshields.
Something that does not show up quite so well in most of those photos however is how the frame was held into the cowl brackets. The much smaller percentage of photos that do show that lean toward most of the 1917s with the even fold hinges also had the frame riveted into the cowl brackets. However, some few clearly show the frame bolted into the bracket like the uneven folding windshields that followed for about five years (in USA production).
Recently, in a photo thread on another forum, a sales record was connected to a photo which might pin the timeline down a bit closer. A 1917 model T with even fold hinges and clearly bolted in windshield frame according to the sales record (which unfortunately was not absolutely certain????), was apparently originally sold in Mid January of 1917. If the connections were in fact accurate, that would indicate that December of 1916 and January of 1917 would be the most likely months for the transitional windshield with the early style even fold hinges and the later style bolted in frame.
Don't you just love minutia?
A couple other observations of that car. The sidelamps appear to be one of the early transitional lamps used on the few (less than fifty!) runabouts manufactured in December of 1914 and runabouts and touring cars during January and maybe February of 1915. My runabout was almost early enough that it could possibly have had such lamps. I have a tail-lamp in that style which I plan to use on it. The only obvious difference is that the font bowl is wider and flatter than the common ones that followed for more than ten years. The only pieces on those lamps that actually might interchange with the common 1915 and later lamps is the lens and bezel itself. EVERY other part in them is different from the lamps made only a couple months later. Even the brass top piece is different, the shape (slightly larger) and the size of the screw to mount it.
If they are the early transitional sidelamps, they should have had some shiny brass, however, the car being maybe almost three years old when the photo was taken, the brass may have tarnished enough to not stand out in the photo.
The second photo from the top is an early 1917 touring car. Pay special attention to the windshield on it. The obvious detail is that the windshield on this one has the even fold style hinges used throughout 1915 and 1916 open car production. Throughout the 1915 and 1916 model years, the windshield frame was riveted into the cowl mounting brackets. Earliest 1917s also had the windshield frame riveted into the cowl brackets! As far as I know, records do not tell accurately when the changes were made to the windshield frame during 1917. Empirical evidence including hundreds of photographs indicate that the even folding hinge was used for quite some while, possibly as much as six months (or only slightly less?) This is indicated by the large numbers of photos showing 1917s with even folding windshields.
Something that does not show up quite so well in most of those photos however is how the frame was held into the cowl brackets. The much smaller percentage of photos that do show that lean toward most of the 1917s with the even fold hinges also had the frame riveted into the cowl brackets. However, some few clearly show the frame bolted into the bracket like the uneven folding windshields that followed for about five years (in USA production).
Recently, in a photo thread on another forum, a sales record was connected to a photo which might pin the timeline down a bit closer. A 1917 model T with even fold hinges and clearly bolted in windshield frame according to the sales record (which unfortunately was not absolutely certain????), was apparently originally sold in Mid January of 1917. If the connections were in fact accurate, that would indicate that December of 1916 and January of 1917 would be the most likely months for the transitional windshield with the early style even fold hinges and the later style bolted in frame.
Don't you just love minutia?