Kazuma T

[TXGOAT2]

Has anyone ever put a Judson-type supercharger on a Model T?

[TWrenn]

Begets the question: "WHY'??

[Scott_Conger]

To the question: Yes

[got10carz]

I have no problem with someone that wants to try something new. Why put a OF carb on, or high compression head, or Model A crankshaft?.
You pay the bills you build what you want. I pay my bills I'll build what I want.
I wish him well on this project.

[TXGOAT2]

I don't have a supercharger. I was wondering if anyone else had tried it. Obviously, boost would have to be limited, and a Scat crank would be needed to make much use of it. A Judson unit intended for a smaller, higher-revving engine would probably be a good choice. One problem would be getting enough RPM at the supercharger shaft. The T oil pan won't allow much in the way of a larger crank pulley.

[Les Schubert]

Back about 1978 I installed a Corvair turbo on my A cranked (counterbalanced pressurized) T engine. It was not a great success but the problem was related to the camshaft I was using. Too long a duration which I ultimately fixed by dividing the intake ports. Certainly I’ve thought about trying it again but probably won’t get around to it.

[TRDxB2]

Has anyone ever put a Judson-type supercharger on a Model T?

The Supercharged McCathren Special Model T Ford Racing Car
https://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/3 ... 1384545629

[Dan McEachern]

http://www.myrideisme.com/Blog/arizona- ... -a-record/

Owner Joel Young is a MTFCA member and also owns a T speedster.

[ThreePedalTapDancer]

Nothing wrong with era correct superchargers…

http://buymegivemetakeme.com/fronty%20sprint/index.htm

IMG_0623.jpeg (63.4 KiB) Viewed 2934 times

[TXGOAT2]

My dad used to run around with Les Stilwell, Bob's dad or uncle. Earl McCatheren ran the Dodge dealeship in Breckenridge Tx into the 1970s.

[George Mills]

I’ve never thought it through but seem to recall from uni days (where kinematic analysis WAS model T since the prof had one) that the T engine is only some 24% efficient in energy conversion…so with proper exhaust breathing, pushing more air IN to the mix would have to be a big positive?

[tmodeldriver]

Never on a T but back in the sunny days of my mis-begotten youth I installed a Judson supercharger on a friend's Austin Healey Sprite. Really brought that little booger to life. The most fun came with the "stop light grand prix." If the Sprite sat idling for a minute or two a few drops of Marvel Mystery oil from the supercharger's Alemite lubricator would accumulate somewhere. When the MBG, TR-3, TR-4 or Sunbeam Alpine in the other lane who was planning on trouncing that miserable little Sprite would be left in a cloud of MMO smoke. Lots of fun back then. Bob

[Craig Leach]

Hi Pat,
Yes I have tried it with mixed results. The performance was OK even though it only produced 2-3 lbs of boost. The car developed overheating
issues so I removed it (still had some Temp. issues ) The boost dropped off at 1600-1700 RPM Judsons loose efficancy at high RPM and to
compensate for the small size I drove it at 3.1:1 using the generator gear. I'm thinking this is to fast as the heat from the Judson burned the
paint of the manifold. There is not much room for a air to air aftercooler on a T. And the manifold is close to the exhaust. I'm thinking next
try I will slow down the Judson & try to shield the intake from the exhaust. And not test it when it's 105 degrees out. The intension was not
so much for speed but for better performance at high elevations 5000' + were T's seem to be anemic when it comes to steep hills.
Craig.

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[TXGOAT2]

I'd guess that 2-3 lbs of boost is all the engine would stand, and you probably would want to taper off the boost as you approached 2000 RPM. I wouldn't think you'd have enough pressure to cause the intake to get very hot. Some way of getting cool air to the supercharger intake would help performance and help keep the heat down. An expansion chamber might help with intercooling. A manual wastegate control with a dash mounted boost gauge might be helpful. It looks like a sizeable can of worms for a street car. Adding EFI might simplify things.

[David Greenlees]

I'd guess that 2-3 lbs of boost is all the engine would stand, and you probably would want to taper off the boost as you approached 2000 RPM. I wouldn't think you'd have enough pressure to cause the intake to get very hot. Some way of getting cool air to the supercharger intake would help performance and help keep the heat down. An expansion chamber might help with intercooling. A manual wastegate control with a dash mounted boost gauge might be helpful. It looks like a sizeable can of worms for a street car. Adding EFI might simplify things.

I have a couple of Judson Volvo B18 superchargers (I vintage race a '67 Volvo 1800S with the VSCCA in New England https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6RUeERnkAU ). The Volvo B18 engine is 108 CI, and this size blower (the largest) was also used on MG, Triumph, Mercedes 190, and on 139 and the 163 CI Corvair engines and the larger engine is close to the size to a T 177 CI engine. A Judson can be run at 5000 RPM.

Aluminum Judson rotor with Micarta vanes that is a composite of canvas, or other fabric in a thermosetting plastic. The vanes lubricated and cooled by a Marvel Mystery oiler and the air and gasoline mixture.

I also have an original T racing car with a SR Fronty racing engine with a counter-balanced crankshaft with 1.625" main and rod journals and quite a bit of engine set back and room for a crank-driven blower. Have thought it would be a very interesting project to set up vintage roots type blower or a Judson off of the front of the crankshaft in the same manner as the Green Engineering special powered by Green supercharger in the photo below. Mounting one out in front of the radiator would allow it to be air cooled. Vintage Bentley's were also equipped with a front-mounted blower.

[Craig Leach]

Hi Pat,
The only guy I know that runs EFI on a T has ported out the block & divided the ports to give 4 ports one for each injector. That solves the
1,2,4,3 firing order issue. Wich may be the best part of pressurizing the intake on a T. But it's a lot of work. Maybe GDI would be a better
option? Then there will be a bunch of complaints about having a ECM in a Model T. My thought was that Judson started making rotory vaine
blowers & suerchargers in I think in 1902 that would be somewhat period correct? Speaking of a can of worms wasn't disc brakes pattened
that same year??? But then I degress. You asked so thats were I'm at on this. Henry & Thomas had less than stellar results in their first
attempts. Maybe I will have some success in the future??
Craig

[Craig Leach]

Hi David,
I was told by a Judson guy that the one I have looses efficentcy @ 4000 RPM The MG, Volvo & Corvair Judsons are about 50% larger than the VW
one. Wish I had one. This whole thing started out as a challange that the Judson was mine if I put it on a T & made it work. It did work. The
first attempt was not 100% successfull but it did work. The project is on the back burner for know as I have a lot of irons in the fire and want
to make sure the supercharger is reliable before I take it on a speedster run.
Craig.

[David Greenlees]

Hi Pat,
Yes I have tried it with mixed results. The performance was OK even though it only produced 2-3 lbs of boost. The car developed overheating
issues so I removed it (still had some Temp. issues ) The boost dropped off at 1600-1700 RPM Judsons loose efficancy at high RPM and to
compensate for the small size I drove it at 3.1:1 using the generator gear. I'm thinking this is to fast as the heat from the Judson burned the
paint of the manifold. There is not much room for a air to air aftercooler on a T. And the manifold is close to the exhaust. I'm thinking next
try I will slow down the Judson & try to shield the intake from the exhaust. And not test it when it's 105 degrees out. The intension was not
so much for speed but for better performance at high elevations 5000' + were T's seem to be anemic when it comes to steep hills.
Craig.judson.jpgjudson1.jpgjudson2.jpgheat.jpg

What would help you out as you have found is to find a large sized Judson with a 10" long blower housing because as you mention what you are using is too small and sized for a 60 CI Austin Healey or MG Midget engine. A T is 177 CI and running the larger blower it at 1:1 would work better and is about what it is designed for. Drive the blower off of the crank in front of the radiator to keep it cooler. It is likely the timing gears and the small front cam bearing will wear quite quickly because of the much heavier load the supercharger imposes over the small amount of power that a generator requires.

If you haven't talked with George Folchi contact him, he maybe able to help with a 10" unit @ http://www.judsonguru.com/ or the Judson Supercharger Society Facebook page they turn up now and then @ https://www.facebook.com/groups/383542915014715

Good luck with what ever you try next.

[Craig Leach]

Hi David,
Yes have talked to George several times he is a wealth of Judson info. He set me up with new seals & vaines and lots of info on setting them up
He is very helpful. I traded some parts I didn't need for some I did. He talked like if I gave up on the project he would make me an offer on what
I had. I still would like to persue this as I realy liked the results of what I have got so far. I didn't concider a turbo because of the oiling issue but
have talked to someone that has a electric oil pump solution to lube a turbo.
Craig.

[Norman Kling]

we had a man in our local club, about 30 years ago who had a very souped up engine. He also had several transmissions on his car. The car looked stock, not a speedster.l He used to pass everyone going up a hill and just grin at them. However I know of two times he sheared off the bolts holding his ring gear in the rear axle. One time he had the Mayor of San Diego or the Governor (The mayor was later elected governor) This was at the dedication of the San Diego Coronado Bridge. He broke down in the middle of the bridge!
So It is not good to add too much power to the engine. The drivetrain was made for 20 HP. That is half as much as the Model A of the 1920S to 1930s. A high compression head maybe a stroked crankshaft is all I would suggest for increase of power.
Norm

[Craig Leach]

Hi Norm,
I'm inclined to agree, unfortuneatly the cost of building a stroker cranked high compression engine is not at this time in the best intrest of hobby
plans. The Judson was and is a fun challenge and the dollar outlay was half of a high compression head with simular results. The up side of a
supercharger is you can adjust the amount of boost by changing the speed you drive it at or with a wastegate to control the load on a stock
crank since that is what is in my engine now. With that small of a supercharger I'm sure there will not be to much boost so if I get 5-7 HP and
better performance in the mountains I'm happy.
Craig.