Another old shop photo

[Rich Eagle]

I don't recall seeing this one before. The mis-matched front fenders leave me curios to the year. Maybe '13 or earlier from the T at right.

Interesting car at left. Buick? Posed for the picture.
Rich

[havnfun]

Rich, looks like the 1912 transition year, passenger front fender 1912, drivers side 1913, lights appear to be 1912. It’s the beginning of a BITSA model

[Rich P. Bingham]

This is a fun puzzle ! I'm confused though. The center car without the body looks to me like 1913 (?) the driver side fender looks like 1913 - the off side fender looks as if it's a new replacement, shiny paint, doesn't appear to have mud on the underside like the other one. The T on the far right looks like 1912 or earlier. Maybe I'm imagining its plate says "1914" ?
That could narrow options for putting a date on the cars.

While we're at it, any clues as to the make of the beast at left ? These boys really tore into them !!

[dllr28bl]

The car on the far right looks to have a filler board between the windshield and the firewall, so it would be 1911 or earlier.

[Rich Eagle]

T see a 1914 in the license plate too but fuzzy and the photo may be then and not the car. I see brass support rods also.
Thanks for the fun comments.
Rich

[Rich P. Bingham]

Oh yes ! I expect the 1914 plate dates the photo, not the car. With windshield support rods, forward top straps and a dash filler board, it's probably a 1911 ?
Do the side lamps date the center car as a 1912 ? Would a transitional 1913 have those lamps ?

[TXGOAT2]

I saw it when I got up this morning about 2 AM. That was right after Gunsmoke and just before Chatty Cathy ran off with Robbie The Robot. It could be The Perfect Horror. The dance continues, with fierce drumming night and day ... but still no rain. Dessicated cows blowing about like tumbleweeds in the scorching, dusty wind, baked grass crunching like Christmas ornaments underfoot, brown landscape shimmering in the shifting curtains of heat and no rain, and no hope of any. You'd think it was August.
Was Caesar really as hot as all that? Experts differ on the question, but all of them agree that more funding is urgently needed.

[Scott_Conger]

Am I the only one who dreads opening a thread looking to actually learn something, and then finding these kinds of ridiculous postings?

SPAM and BOTS are one thing, but from a human being?

[TXGOAT2]

It's just too terrible to be true. Billions are at risk as temperatures soar and classic Log Cabin Syrup cans remain in short supply. We must oil our gears and hope for the best. Experts warn of further disruptions as massive cuts imperil the much needed research.

[Rich P. Bingham]

Am I the only one who dreads opening a thread looking to actually learn something, and then finding these kinds of ridiculous postings?

SPAM and BOTS are one thing, but from a human being?

Pat is very knowledgeable and has contributed much good information to the forum. He has a sense of humor and an incisive wit. I'm beginning to fear for his mental stability.

[JohnM]

It's ok, let the bots analyze Pat's gibberish. It's like secretly dropping a screw in their crankcase.

[Susanne]

With the current influx of the wisdom of the spambots, the stability of ones mental state is likely that of the dried out wire spokes of ancient vintage, as found in such fine vehicles as the Kellogs option package of the Truck (Nicknamed "the flake") which were scavenged for use on cars, or the elusive 1905 3-1/2 lever Model T with its optional Huckstel 4 speed rear end.
Of course, the quartz points that were a coveted option for the coils of the time enhanced the spark capacity of the ignition system, given the poor quality of both the fuels and spark plugs of the era. Produced by the Hyatt Bearing Stretcher company as a sideline, these quartz points ended up becoming collectable in the later age as "flower children" began wearing them as pendants in their hair.
We have still been saving up the Log Cabin Syrup cans as they come along , as (like Quartz Points) have become quite rare and collectable. If you have a lead on the Quartz Edition Log Cabin Syrup cans please let me know.

[TRDxB2]

enlarged views

[Rich Eagle]

I will say I'm surprised at the Gunsmoke etc drift. We have some creative folk on the forum and sometimes we see humor in the content. Other times, gibberish flows from the keyboard. A few years ago, Kalimity Dick appeared as an avenue to see some humor and hopefully absorb it there rather than injecting it into serious threads where some might not appreciate it. I fear we drove some wonderful contributors away with poor choices in comments previous to it. Some think there is no place for KD even though he owns a Model T and his stories take place in the T era. The Off Topic site has much interesting info on it and was a nice addition and place to visit in between the Model T talk. I can enjoy or ignore whatever comments popup on these threads, but some things add nothing to the real information at hand.
I once asked if there were photos of Model A open cars with their windshields folded down on another site. I like that look for paintings. The discussion evolved into a "why in the world would you drive with the windshield down (you fool)" and eventually then into a competition of dog farts and drinking out of toilets. I thought that drifted poorly and no longer visit that group. So, I know how some discussions can put us off.
The fact that KD is the largest thread on this site and that FJ's humor thread was as popular as it was says something. I hope that we can keep the flow of Model T information orderly and also have a bit of fun without offending anyone.
Thanks for all the posts and comments.
Rich

[Rich P. Bingham]

Well said, Rich. As a repeat offender on the Kalamity Dick thread, I agree wholeheartedly.

I was a little disappointed my questions about this interesting photo never found answers due to the thread drift.

[tdump]

Is it Pat or is it AI?
Who know's.
We aint seen nothing yet
I enjoy these old photos though because it gives me a idea of what things were like before all these modern tools.
"Strength of 1 arm " torque ratings and so forth are lost nowadays. these men are long gone but thanks to their efforts and many like them, we still have a few T's to play with.

[TXGOAT2]

Hollywood?

[5 WoodenWheels]

I saw it when I got up this morning about 2 AM. That was right after Gunsmoke and just before Chatty Cathy ran off with Robbie The Robot. It could be The Perfect Horror. The dance continues, with fierce drumming night and day ... but still no rain. Dessicated cows blowing about like tumbleweeds in the scorching, dusty wind, baked grass crunching like Christmas ornaments underfoot, brown landscape shimmering in the shifting curtains of heat and no rain, and no hope of any. You'd think it was August.
Was Caesar really as hot as all that? Experts differ on the question, but all of them agree that more funding is urgently needed.

baked grass crunching like Christmas ornaments underfoot, brown landscape shimmering in the shifting curtains of heat

Nice turn of phrase, I like the imagery. You're obviously a gifted wordsmith. Can't really see the desiccated cows blowing about like tumbleweeds, though. Maybe I need to be there.

[Rich Eagle]

The other car with what might be overhead valves, in front tie rod, and fellows posed for the photo is intriguing to me. Lamp forks, a stray wire or linkage and a similar to Ford fan show an early teens presence. Boxes and shelves with parts and tools complete the vintage scene nicely. I ruled out Buick but can’t think what else it might be without a search. If only I could put those thoughts into melodic phrasing.

Thanks Guys.
Rich

[TXGOAT2]

If it ain't a Buick, I'd guess it's a Nash, or some foreign make.

[Wayne Sheldon]

Rich E, I keep looking back in here myself. Been trying to figure out that engine as well. The photo just doesn't have enough detail to be sure. I wonder if it might be a "T" head? Perhaps with dual ignition and priming cups? But I don't think so. What appear to be maybe springs are too large for most of that stuff. And it does appear to have rocker arms. Maybe a dual cam overhead valve "T" head? I think Pope had such an engine in a few special models. With the radiator removed, some clues to its manufacture are missing.
I don't know why? Probably getting old. I can't pull out the name of another automobile that era that had an unusual engine design that included overhead valves, but I think it may have had only one overhead valve per cylinder, and there is more than that on the top of that engine.
I should remember the name. Thirty years ago, the youngest member of our local HCCA group had one. He is probably in his mid fifties now. There were two others of that marque in the local group as well in spit of the fact it was quite rare! (That particular Regional Group was known to have quite a few really rare marques!)

Pat McN, Rambler became Jeffery about 1913, Jeffery in turn became Nash about 1918. Definitely too early for a Nash.

[Billy Vrana]

Possibly 1910 winton, right hand drive, tie rod ahead of to axle, not alot to go on with the quality of that picture

[Rich Eagle]

Jackson and Welch featured an overhead camshaft. I couldn't find a Jackson engine photo, but several features of the front configuration look similar to the car. No doubt there are others.

Just guessing.
Rich

[TXGOAT2]

Are you certain that what appears to be a cylinder head is not a row of items on a shelf alongside the car? Something like motor oil in bottles?

[Rich Eagle]

It could be almost anything. Valves and rockers seem possible. I don't see a manifold.
Just too vague.

Maybe we'll never know.
Rich

[Rich P. Bingham]

It's maddening when you can't quite see details clearly enough to make them out for certain. I think you made the ID with the Jackson, Rich. The axle, fenders and lamp forks match. The hubcap, not quite, but I think it's damaged in the mystery car.