“The Full Model T Experience” vs “Model T Lite”

[KellyJons]

So I typically walk 3 or 4 miles a day up and down my very crooked and hilly country road and think, think, think.

Today I was thinking a lot about a Forum conversation from yesterday.

It started with me asking about heated seats in a Model T Ford. I think I may have crossed some sort of line with that question, because “BHarper” sighed heavily, shook his head, and asked me if I was after “The Full Model T Experience,” or I was just wanting “Model T Lite.”

I took no offense because I can appreciate straight shooters like Bill. Based on the example he gave of his long distance touring in the middle of winter, he sounds like the kind of tough and resourceful guy who’s good to know. I’d happily buy him a big cup of coffee and sit and talk Model T‘s for a couple of hours.

But then, today, another commenter has left me wondering if I’m so far out in the weeds that I need somebody to set me straight.

That was “Walber” saying that if you have a 12 V system and alternator, go ahead and put in electric heat “because it’s not really a Model T anymore anyway and you might as well be comfy.”

!!!

I guess I’m green enough when it comes to these vintage machines that I don’t really know the boundaries. Maybe there’s a purity to the Model T world that doesn’t extend to the other makes and models of vintage automobiles out there? I know plenty of guys, for instance, who drive Model A Fords with alternators and 12 volt LED lighting and other accessories and they would laugh if you told them they no longer had a Model A.

But then, thankfully, Steve Jelf came riding in like a knight on a white horse in a different Forum topic and left us a link to EB White’s 1936 New Yorker essay, in which White writes:

“There was this about a Model T; the purchaser never regarded his purchase as a complete, finished product. When you bought a Ford, you figured you had a start - a vibrant, spirited framework to which could be screwed an almost limitless assortment of decorative and functional hardware. Driving away from the agency, hugging the new wheel between your knees, you were already full of creative worry. A Ford was born naked as a baby, and a flourishing industry grew up out of correcting its rare deficiencies and combating its fascinating diseases.”

And I guess I would have to admit that EB White and I are in the same camp. I’ve been collecting a lot of literature about Model T Fords in the last few weeks, and among the books I’ve collected are a number of reprinted catalogs of Model T parts and accessories. I suppose I always figured that, like EB White stated, the owner of a Model T Ford was given free reign to customize and improve the machine in whatever way he saw fit.

But maybe I’m thinking wrong. I’ll freely admit that heated seats are a little far out there, and they’re not really something I want, but at the same time, where is the line to be drawn? Are only “Period Correct” accessories acceptable? Is a Ruckstell axle the only allowably “pure” improvement, because that’s what Henry said? Is an E-Timer OK? What about a second tail light, or brake lights, or LED bulbs? At what point does accessorizing or improving a Model T Ford make it no longer a Model T Ford?

These are honest questions, fellas. I’m a bit concerned that I may have offended some of you and I certainly don’t want to do that. I’m new to this sandbox, I intend to be here a good long time, and don’t want to make a mess with comments or questions that I should keep to myself.

Kelly

[Scott_Conger]

Kelly

you could wish us all a "good day" and someone will ask you "how the he!! do you know how my day is going?"

It's just the confluence of personalities from a-z, semi-anonymity of the internet, and a general coarseness that circles the globe and an inability to see the commenter's face to determine exactly what tone was meant.

ducks; back; water; done.

[Bryant]

I am not offended. Your posts are well written and easy to understand. I enjoy the T from Original to the wildly insane! Welcome to the sandbox.
Bryant

[dobro1956]

Anything a T owner does to his car is his business. But some things are worse than others. I'm of the camp that anything to help safety is OK. That would include safety glass, better lights (that's where 12 volt is better), dual tail lights and turn signals, and then auxiliary brakes. Period correct like AC or Rockie Mountains were available then and a very popular accessory. Anything that helps braking just add another layer of safety. Then there are the two "biggies" a Warford trans and disc brakes. Now I should add a "disclaimer" I now have everything mentioned above on our car. I have 45 plus years behind the wheel of a T. I drove my car as correct as possible for years, but one day we ended upside down at the bottom of a steep ditch beside the highway. I finally added disc brakes and do not regret it at all. Because to really "enjoy" the experience, either "full" or "light" I need to feel as safe as possible. My wife is usually always with me (we were both upside down in the T together) or I have grandkids along for the trip. I love all of them and want to keep them safe also.
On a side note , as I am typing this we are in a tent, beside a mountain stream, in the Ozark mountains of Arkansas. We drove there in a fully loaded T. It is lightly raining outside. We had a nice meal cooked over an open fire in a cast iron skillet. All of our camp gear is period correct. I think that is about as close to the "full" experience we will ever get. There is no way we could have made it to where we are camped without a Warford or good brakes. I guess what I'm try to say is there can be many different versions of "full" experiences. Just be safe doing them ....

[MichaelPawelek]

It is nobody’s business what you do to your Model T and you don’t need anyone’s permission. What ever makes you happy and enjoy the ride is the most important. Whom ever owns your stuff later on can change things the way they want it. Most every change made to a Model T is reversible.
PS-Mine are relatively original except for safety upgrades.

[DHort]

Kelly,

I have to agree with Walber on one thing. 6V. You can add 12V lighting. But to have a Model T you should have no need to change any part of the ignition to 12 V. The coils work on 6V and a dizzy works with 6V. That is how Henry made it.

If you want to add modern accessories for safety, I am OK with that. We want you to enjoy your car and feel safe in it.

[Steve Jelf]

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

~ Romans 3:23

Purism, the practice of having all parts and procedures "factory correct" is not absolute. I know one T guy who takes great pride in using correct parts and going for complete originality, and he will be happy to preach the Gospel of originality whether you ask or not. But he uses New Day timers. At the Hershey car show there are always a few restored Model T's that seem correct in every detail. But so far I haven't seen one with a "Gilsonite wash" on its engine, or finished in varnish, not paint.

At the other end of the spectrum are the guys who sneer at "purists" and load their T's up with modern geegaws to a fare-thee-well. Said geegaws are often "upgrades" that really aren't, do nothing to make the car more reliable, and sometimes make it even less so.

Most of us are somewhere between the extremes. My leanings are in the "pure" direction, but my 1915 has a FP pinion bearing, twelve volt tail/brake lights and turn signals, a New Day timer, and a magneto battery charger. Like the Amish farmer whose team pulls equipment powered by a gasoline engine, my purism is selective.

I do paint my wheels body color, as God and Henry intended.

[Rich P. Bingham]

"You can never go home again . . ."

Mostly, all of us, purists and the "anything goes" modifying folk, have a "Model T Lite" experience, whether we wish it or not. The driving environment for most is far different than it was even 40 years ago, and I'd hazard most of the retro-fit attempts at improvement are a response to that. Make your T faster, safer, more comfortable. Often it's driven by what we have become accustomed to in automobiles through the past few decades. We can't even relate to the crude, slow, primitive and unsheltered means of travel the Model T in its unaltered state presents. Fun for some, but not for all.

"It's my cake ! I'm gonna eat all I want then spit on the rest so you bastards can't have none". - line from "The Sand Pebbles", 1968

Most alterations and upgrades may be reversible. The problem is the next guy may have a very difficult time trying to parse out what pieces are Ford and those that are not. Some retro-fit grafts may not survive the onward march of obsolescence anywhere near as well as the original design. Already, I gather it's becoming difficult to service VW Bosch distributers (?)

The mantra here is it's your car, do what you wish with it. Any hand-wringing over the varying shades of preservation is purely philosophical, and "My Lovely" seems to endure, regardless of what is done to her. Should the critter and its aficionados prevail, I wonder what the Model Ts of 2123 will look like ??

[walber]

If anyone missed it my comment about 12 volts and an alternator was a bit of a snide remark based on comments I've seen from some (mainly one) dedicated purists. I've owned and truly enjoyed 2 T's that were as Henry intended other than slightly enhanced brakes and brake lights. They were great but with urban growth aren't very practical where I live. I also have a T speedster that is certainly modified from what Henry intended. When the day comes that I have to part with cars it will be the last to leave - and no, it does not have heated seats.

Y'all have fun with your cars, I expect I will.

[ModelTWoods]

If a T owner is lucky enough to have a relatively low mileage, unmodified T, or if his goal is to see how many trophies and awards he can put in his house and garage, Well, we all know that it would be sacrilegious to modify a T, but for any other T owner, regardless of whether his T is a Heinz 57 conglomeration, an amateur restored 'driver", or something he dug out of the creek bank somewhere, it is his car to build as he sees fit. Personally, I see nothing wrong with changing anything that improves safety, regardless of whether it is changing to 12 volt, adding hydraulic brakes, or even adding seat belts if the car isn't to me judged as original. the seat belts can always be tucked away under the seats. There's no way to hide hydraulic brakes, but John Q. Public, who looks at and admires your T and says "you've got a nice model A", would never be able to tell if you are running on 6 volts or 12. I've known of at least a couple of T owners who have even added air conditioning to their T.

[Rich Eagle]

Walking and thinking is a dangerous combination. My philosophies from that have been called into question.
As Barbossa, in Pirates of the Caribbean stated, “The code is more what you’d call ‘guidelines’ than actual rules.”
We all interject our preferences and horrors based on what we like and dislike. If you are the one who bought the car and paid for it, what you do is certainly up to you. If you want ideas from others, we can give you lots of them.
There is some satisfaction in having it just as it came from the factory, but there are limits.
Regardless of what you do, someone will find fault or a better way. You too will compare what others do to what you like to see. That is goes along with having a forum like this. Whether it bothers you enough to comment is completely at your digression.
I'm sure discussions on what color the alternator should be, or brass or chrome supercharger will come up in the future. My sin has been "it isn't a real barn find, it's just something he put together.
Have fun.
Rich

[George House]

Kelly; here is the definitive answer to your last sentence in your second-to-last paragraph :…..small or large block Chebby V8. You do that and I won’t let you be my friend

[speedytinc]

Kelly; here is the definitive answer to your last sentence in your second-to-last paragraph :…..small or large block Chebby V8. You do that and I won’t let you be my friend

What a bout a chevy 4 or a pinto motor.

[George House]

No comment…..too much Canceling going on

[Kaiser]

It's not as if you're cutting off a piece of a Rembrandt painting to fit it above your sofa (has been done, really!), you are not fitting a modern turboprop to the last flying Messerschmidt.
T's are still plentyfull, some are rarer then others but you will not be put in jail for modifying your T to suit your taste.
Do what you like and enjoy your T !

[MWalker]

I have aftermarket wire wheels with "balloon" tires on my '15 T. It also has a KC Warford tranny and disc brakes. The engine has an aftermarket high-compression head, pepped-up cam, and a TW timer. I removed the turtle and replaced it with a wooden pickup bed. But it's still a Model T, since it runs on a timer and coils.

[Norman Kling]

In our local club we require a Model T block, Model T chassis, and a body which is either Model T or aftermarket body available in the day or period type speedster. I know one member who had a chassis with a buckboard seat on it with T engine. Over the years he found a C cab body and made it a pickup. So there is sometimes a "metamorphosis". I personally like a standard T body, engine, chassis and wheels. A combination of different years is OK. Most people don't know the difference.
Some people like "Show Cars" which are completely original parts or same year parts. They try to keep the car in perfect condition trying to win Best of show in judging contests.
I personally like to keep mine good enough to drive around town and display at our local museum from time to time and go on tours with the club.
One of the things I have found on the tours is that the people who have most modifications also have more trips on the trouble trailer. And if your car has non stock parts, you are on your own supplying replacements or repair parts because alternators and water pumps and distributors etc are notarious for breaking down. With coils and timer it is usually repairable by substituting a known good coil or carrying a spare timer and on you go. But if you have distributor you must carry your own replacement parts, because there are so many different ones, it is very unlikely someone on the tour will have a spare.
I could go on and on.
If I want modern convenience I drive my modern car and if I want the T experience I drive the T. They don't really mix.
Norm

[babychadwick]

Full model t experience involves the owner/driver/passengers being involved and fitting the year you want. A '23 has been around for a century, are you experiencing life as though it is 1923 with the car? If not then you simply are showing an antique in a modern era and "lite"

Just my opinion from doing unrelated living history rendezvous etc. where everything should be "period"

[ThreePedalTapDancer]

As the late Ralph Ricks would often say, "The modifications on MY car make it safer, more reliable and improve its appearance. The modifications on YOUR car are unnecessary, troublesome, gaudy and ruin the whole character of the Model T!"