N's, R's & S's

[Original Smith]

I've been wondering if any aftermarket body companies made touring bodies for these cars?

[RGould1910]

There were a few touring bodies made for a Model S roadster. Cecil Church had one and there is a period photo of one displayed on a floor room in London. I assume they were Ford bodies. If memory serves there is one illustrated on the cover of an old issue the MTFIC mag. That may have been Church's. Again, if memory serves, there was an issue whether that body was off an early 09. The London photo is the real deal, however.

[ClaytonPaddison]

There have to have been some. I can't say I've ever seen anything other then the factory roadster body.

Homemade customer stuff? That I can see. I have a 1908 Model S I acquired from Dan Haynes that was rebodied as a "Gunboat Runabout" between 1912 and 1914. its all wood and skinned in hardware cloth, Cotton batting and canvas that was then doped and painted. It makes for a unique little car and I plan to keep it that way. It will be restored but will remain in its 1912-'14 styling.

[Wayne Sheldon]

Clayton P, I have seen that N/R/S custom roadster when Dan had it! It truly is a special car. An original era "speedster" on a pre-T format nicely built custom body in every sense a road speedster built in the early days of the model T. I often refer to speedsters in general and model T Ford speedsters specifically as one of the longest running automotive hobbies in the world. They literally began before the model T hit the market when Ford's design engineers put bare bones bodies on the experimental chassis to road test the model T designs, along with a handful of N/R/S and even a couple model K speedsters built by individuals. Model T "speedsters" have been built in every calendar year from 1908 until still today! In the long line of speedsters, it really is an early landmark original piece! And it should be cared for as such.

[ClaytonPaddison]

Clayton P, I have seen that N/R/S custom roadster when Dan had it! It truly is a special car. An original era "speedster" on a pre-T format nicely built custom body in every sense a road speedster built in the early days of the model T. I often refer to speedsters in general and model T Ford speedsters specifically as one of the longest running automotive hobbies in the world. They literally began before the model T hit the market when Ford's design engineers put bare bones bodies on the experimental chassis to road test the model T designs, along with a handful of N/R/S and even a couple model K speedsters built by individuals. Model T "speedsters" have been built in every calendar year from 1908 until still today! In the long line of speedsters, it really is an early landmark original piece! And it should be cared for as such.

It is a very unique little car. It is very well preserved and complete but does need quite a bit to put it back together. I have been going through all the boxes to invantory, research and catalog everything to put it back they it was in 1912-'14. I have not decieded on color yet (will be close to the original scheme) and have to secure a drive train for it (it was converted to a T drive train 90 year ago or more from how the chassis is setup). also needs a set of all-white 30x3s and some brass lamps (no electric).

You are correct, such a beautifully built pre-T speedster is rare and unique and needs to be preserved.

[Rob]

Clayton,
Any old photos of your NRS speedster? Sounds quite interesting. You might try the Early Ford Registry for any parts needs.
Thank you for your posts. I’ll add a few non-stock photos here as I find them in my well organized (not) digital filing system (batch of thousands of pics…. ).

[ClaytonPaddison]

Clayton,
Any old photos of your NRS speedster? Sounds quite interesting. You might try the Early Ford Registry for any parts needs.
Thank you for your posts. I’ll add a few non-stock photos here as I find them in my well organized (not) digital filing system (batch of thousands of pics…. ).

Sadly no, not yet. I don't believe Dan had any either. It was designed and built by then 17 year old Winslow Pierce (who was an accomplished inventor) who patented everything he built for it. He worked for Timkin later on and I believe started his own Bearing Company in the 1930s. He owned the S until his death in 1950, driving it daily.

The Peirce family home was on Long Island, not far from Teddy Roosevelts estate, so there is a good bet Teddy saw that car running around a time or two.

[Will_Vanderburg]

Wonder why I cannot see any photos you post?

[jab35]

Will, if not logged in, do that and then the attachments should be visible. At least that's been my experience, jb

[Will_Vanderburg]

I’m logged in all the time. I found by touching the no smoking sign I could view them on my phone

[Rob]

A few non-production and aftermarket bodied Fords:

This is our N, as it appeared at a Ford dealership in 1925. It’s an early N (#3), with later radiator, aftermarket fenders, running boards and rumble seat:

1908 S with double back seat:

English touring body on an NRS:

These drawings were of the first prototype T touring and runabout, December 1907:

[ClaytonPaddison]

A few non-production and aftermarket bodied Fords:

This is our N, as it appeared at a Ford dealership in 1925. It’s an early N (#3), with later radiator, aftermarket fenders, running boards and rumble seat:

5A1CA9AC-1AF4-496C-A7F4-4E4B2932060A.jpeg

So what does your S look like now? Did they produce the S in 1908 only, or where there any 1907 production cars? Any way to ID from the chassis?

[Rob]

Clayton,
My car is an “N.” A very early one, evidenced by several early non-production features including different front wishbone to axle bolts, downward protruding brake levers (at the hub), and no boss for the engine number on the crankcase. I left it the same, since it was that way as of 1925 (and virtually unchanged for that time until I obtained it).

Model S Roadsters were only produced in 1908. By the summer of 1908 FMC announces they were only producing Model S Roadsters and K Roadsters as they geared up for Model T production. By that time Model K were assembled at the former Ford Manufacturing Co. location. Photos of Piquette by this time show a factory busting at tut seams with cars, T frames and components, and all sorts of equipment and parts.

Below: colorized portion of Piquette photo, summer 1998, showing Model T frames stacked up in the yard.

Original photo, courtesy of THF, all rights apply:

[ClaytonPaddison]

Clayton,
My car is an “N.” A very early one, evidenced by several early non-production features including different front wishbone to axle bolts, downward protruding brake levers (at the hub), and no boss for the engine number on the crankcase. I left it the same, since it was that way as of 1925 (and virtually unchanged for that time until I obtained it).

That's neat! So then it's got a slightly different chassis then the "S" or where they pretty similar? I'd love to see pictures of it!

Model S Roadsters were only produced in 1908. By the summer of 1908 FMC announces they were only producing Model S Roadsters and K Roadsters as they geared up for Model T production. By that time Model K were assembled at the former Ford Manufacturing Co. location. Photos of Piquette by this time show a factory busting at tut seams with cars, T frames and components, and all sorts of equipment and parts.

Below: colorized portion of Piquette photo, summer 1908, showing Model T frames stacked up in the yard.
E00AB89E-4F6B-4981-ADE9-FB91C53AC67F.jpeg

Original photo, courtesy of THF, all rights apply:
586BECD6-437D-4F06-A6BA-4C1E7048D05B.jpeg

Okay, so that makes it really easy...1908. So how many "S" cars were built and how many survive?

It's neat to see and read stuff like this. It really shows how fast they were moving from the N, R, S to the T, while producing the K all at the same time.

[Mark Nunn]

Okay, so that makes it really easy...1908. So how many "S" cars were built and how many survive?

Clayton, this is from Bruce's encyclopedia.

"As with the Model R, Ford began Model S
production with a new serial number series beginning
with number one. The introduction of this new model
was in August of 1907. Approximately 750 were sold by
January 1908; and apparently about 2350 were sold by
September 1908."

[paul schaefer]

I don't know the total survival rate but 2 years ago at the Old Car Festival we had 7 of them lined up for a picture. I think they survived well. We have several registered at the EFR. My car has been in our family since 1948. My father bought it from a local Ford Dealer who had it in their showroom during the war years.

[ClaytonPaddison]

Clayton, this is from Bruce's encyclopedia.

"As with the Model R, Ford began Model S
production with a new serial number series beginning
with number one. The introduction of this new model
was in August of 1907. Approximately 750 were sold by
January 1908; and apparently about 2350 were sold by
September 1908."

Interesting! 2,350 cars is actually a decent production amount for that period. So of those 2,350 cars, do we know about how many survive today?

[paul schaefer]

There are currently 42 Model S roadsters registered with the EFR.

[Rob]

One thing to consider, often “runabout” and “roadster” are confused and commingled when talking about Model S. A rule of thumb is, about 2500 R and about 2500 Model S runabouts were produced. Around 3300-3500 S roadsters (rumble seats). R appeared in the winter/early spring of 1907. S runabouts in the late summer of 1907, and S roadsters in April, 1908. Model K tourings and N runabouts were introduced at the early 1906 auto shows. K weren’t on the market until April, and N until July of 1906. The K roadster appeared in March of 1907.

While all models were profitable for Ford, the 1906 N made little net profit in FY 1906, due to a variety of problems (delayed production, under priced at $500, changed to $600 in Feb 1907, and high dealer commission - initially 20%, changed for FY 1907 to 10%).

For anyone wondering, the Model K made more net profit for FMC in both Fiscal Year 1906 and 1908 than the Model N. However, models R, S runabout and S roadsters blew the doors off in terms of net profits in 1907 and 1908.