Doing things the hard way

[Rich P. Bingham]

Looking for knowledgeable suggestions. The timing gear cover on my '13 (and I presume on all previous Ts) presents a difficulty for the camshaft seal. Rather than having a rebate and using a shield plate like the later cars, the cover has a "pocket" which is meant to carry a felt "donut". I made a "seal" from felt I had available when I changed the timing gear a few years back, but it wasn't particularly successful. If others have solutions for this, I'd be very grateful to learn how you managed it. I'm suspicious the felt sheet i used to form the seal may nit have been of a proper density, and it's hard to cut felt accurately.

Yes, I know I can machine the cover to accept a modern seal, or swap it for a later cover, but I'm loth to go that route. It would probably result in my being ejected from the Purists and Brass Snobs Club.

[michaelb2296]

I wonder, if you took the felt (filler), a nylon washer for strength and the modern neoprene washer (removed from the 1915-1916 type casing) and glued it to the nylon washer and shoved it all inside of that donut hole whether or not it would work similarly to the national seal used in the 1915-1916 type castings???? Just a thought.I know the national seal will fit the opening exactly (with the spring on it) but without more backing it won't work.

[michaelb2296]

oh look.... it's already been done: https://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/8 ... 1533316469
They took the modern seal, smashed it flat and glued it to the front.

[michaelb2296]

national part # 471224. but, they also mentioned some other seals ...

[NealW]

I made one for our 1911 engine. I used a 1/4" (I believe) nylon rope cut to fill in the groove. I coated it with RTV all around and with the camshaft covered with Saran wrap, I centered and bolted the cover on. After curing, I removed the cover and Saran wrap and reinstalled the cover. Seems to have worked well and no leaks!

Neal

[Allan]

If a 1913 cover has the deeper oil filler recess, there are later model covers which have the open seal land.and the deeper filler. The duck's guts are the last of them with the larger crankshaft seal groove which will take the A model white rope seal material. That saves any modifications to original T parts.

Allan from down under.

[michaelb2296]

Neal,
I like it! Sounds like the way to go... Give it 24hrs and you're done!
Michael

[RVA23T]

You can also find Teflon wahsers instead of nylon.
McMaster Carr has them.
I view nylon as too "abrasive" to use in a rotating location and Teflon can take high heat.

[michaelb2296]

I wonder if this would work?
https://www.amazon.com/Minseal-1400L-Co ... th=1&psc=1

[Allan]

From my memory, 1/4" wide packing would be extremely difficult to pack into the narrow groove in the cover. Plus, making a seal at the joint would be just as difficult.

That type of seal works well on the front crankshaft seal between the block and the pan because each end of each half cab be left a little proud so that there is some crush between the two. I can't see that happening in a timing cover.

Allan from down under.

[Rich P. Bingham]

Good thoughts here worth considering. I don't suppose anyone knows for sure what the original seal was? I believe (from looking at the parts list) it was a felt "donut". Perhaps the answer lies in using the correct density of felt, and an accurate way to cut the donut. More study is indicated !

[Rich Eagle]

I presume you are using a New Day or other brush type timer. Thus, no oil wanted.
With roller timers, I always wondered about the necessity of sealing out engine oil and then oiling it through the flip top oiler. That seemed to be an exercise in futility.

[Rich P. Bingham]

My thoughts too, Rich. A little "bleed" past the cam seal is good for a roller timer I'm sure. I'm running a TW, which has forgiven the lack of a better seal, but it probably would be happier with a drier environment.