new axle issue and proposed fix

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Scott Rosenthal
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new axle issue and proposed fix

Post by Scott Rosenthal » Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:09 pm

Happy New Year All. Great to be on-board with the New Forum.

Got new axles and drums for a recent rear end project, and their assembly went together fine. A problem that is only an aesthetics issue, is that the assembled drums and backing plates leave a .15" gap. Not wanting to take the discussion toward replacing the axles, I am proposing a drum that starts out wider, where these could be installed to verify fit, and is then machined down to the desired width? Without speaking to the drum manufacturer, I'm assuming this entails little deviation from their current production method, however we all know what they say about assumptions.

Existing drum alterations ideas struggle as the result of the cost and the multiple related alterations operations required to veneer additional steel onto the standard drum. My understanding is that my dilemma is not unique, so I'm assuming there may be a market out there for these special drums. Any thoughts/comments?
Regards,
Scott


Stephen_heatherly
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Re: new axle issue and proposed fix

Post by Stephen_heatherly » Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:42 pm

Scott, I wouldn't worry about it. In my opinion it's a good thing as it's a sign that the tapers in your hubs are not badly worn, as is often the case. As long as no part of the brake shoe is sticking out, you're just fine.

Stephen


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Re: new axle issue and proposed fix

Post by Scott_Conger » Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:59 pm

Many of the new axles are made .062" long to accomodate a Rocky Mtn additional drum. I have never seen a new drum as old ones are plentiful and cheap. I suspec the drum is somewhat non-stock in some dimension as a .150" gap is more than I've ever seen. As mentioned above if the shoe stays inside it's not a serious problem, but honestly I would want to close that gap up some if nothing else but to keep as much debris out as possible. While probably theoretical, the additional moment arm of the wheel sticking out adds to the load on the axle as it exits the outer bearing.
Scott Conger

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Stephen_heatherly
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Re: new axle issue and proposed fix

Post by Stephen_heatherly » Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:46 pm

Honestly, I don't know who you could do it other than using standard length axle shafts or using worn hubs so that the wheels go further onto the tapers. I've used the longer axles in most of the rear axles I've rebuilt and every one of them ended up having the brake drums spaced slightly away from the backing plate. The wheels being spaced out such a small amount is not going to hurt anything. Eating a big lunch probably would add more strain to the axle shafts than a little extra gap between the drums and backing plates. :lol:

Stephen


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Re: new axle issue and proposed fix

Post by Scott_Conger » Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:05 pm

If it were my car, I would check to see if the new drum was made differently than the original and was insufficiently wide. It is hard for me to believe that a long (.062) axle with an original hub, would result in that large of a gap unless the new drum was made improperly or the differential was for some reason intentionally or unintentionally set well over within the housing.
Scott Conger

Full Flow Float Valves - deliver fuel like Henry intended!


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Scott Rosenthal
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Re: new axle issue and proposed fix

Post by Scott Rosenthal » Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:23 pm

Thx. Gentlemen:
Good point about the measures of these parts. I Understand there are similar gaps on both new and early cars, but I have little first hand information.
Regards,
Scott


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Re: new axle issue and proposed fix

Post by Wayne Sheldon » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:24 am

I have seen a few T models with extra gap between the drum and backing plate. I usually figured it was a good sign that axles and hubs were not excessively worn. But that was before they started making axles just a tad longer. Dirt or small gravel getting inside is a reasonable concern. An eighth of an inch isn't much. Therefore, I would consider pressing a very slight dish into the drum. The area close to the hub does need to be flat, but that should be easy to accomplish. Bolt a hub (preferably one that is not good enough to use in a wheel, because you may damage it) inside the drum. Check offset as a reference. Block the outer area of the drum, and press a bit (don't go too far!). Recheck offset. Re-press until the desired sixteenth to eighth inch is reached.
These drums are easy to bend (I have straightened a few that had been somehow bent). If you do not have a press? The job can actually be easily done with a medium large hammer. It just takes a bit more care and checking for straight, square, and desired offset.

Since the drum is a bit far out from the backing plate? And you are trying to simply close the gap? The slight dish should not interfere with the brake shoes.

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Re: new axle issue and proposed fix

Post by DanTreace » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:10 am

Somewhat normal to have that 1/8" gap. Wouldn't be concerned about gap, in fact would be more worried without a gap for resulting impingement on the backing plate. :shock:

Install with new axles, but with used good hubs. Brake drums are stock good used Ford. R-M brakes on the '27. You can see some gap in each install.
IMG_3959.JPG
This one is used good axle and good hub, still some gap.
IMG_7317 (500x375).jpg
IMG_8485 (640x480).jpg
New axle and good used small drum and good used hub., Install show R-M brakes too
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford

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Re: new axle issue and proposed fix

Post by DanTreace » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:12 am

IMG_0238 (575x670) (515x600) (494x575) (473x550).jpg
Forgot this picture from Ford Service, note the factory gap :)
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford


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Scott Rosenthal
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Re: new axle issue and proposed fix

Post by Scott Rosenthal » Sat Jan 19, 2019 12:05 pm

The gap is a bigger deal if the gap is not equal on both sides, and provided the gap is not excessive. One known member here tells me he has new axles where there is 1/8" gap on one side and a 3/8" gap on the other...yikes! Getting back to the proposed wider drum...if you were wanting to address this on your project, you would purchase the wider drum and cut it to fit your application. Do others think there is a market out there for the wider drum?
Regards,
Scott


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Re: new axle issue and proposed fix

Post by Mindless Automaton » Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:06 pm

Old Hillman hunter /dodge dart drums are what you need. Re-drill to fit your hub. Cut off the excess and you have cast iron that the shoes get real bite into rather than steel which isn't as 'adhesive'.


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Scott Rosenthal
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Re: new axle issue and proposed fix

Post by Scott Rosenthal » Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:13 am

I'm sure there could be multiple alternate parts solutions for this, but needs to be practical and needs to look like OEM parts when complete. I have proposed this particular fix because it sounds very practical with minimal shop effort. To date, I haven't received a response from the people who make the drums, so I'll assume they have no interest. ....possibly a product someone else may be up for producing? Thanks for listening to comments on the matter..I'll come up with a remedy for mine and if different than I described here, will report back.
Regards,
Scott


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Re: new axle issue and proposed fix

Post by Original Smith » Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:36 pm

The vendors need to make axle shafts the same exact length a Ford did. For those that doubt Ford's measurements, perhaps the vendors could supply one that is longer. I use genuine Ford axle shafts in all of my cars, and on the left side, they look like Dans photo. The right side, less so.


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Re: new axle issue and proposed fix

Post by Allan » Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:37 am

A new, longer by 1/16" axle can only add 1/16" to the gap you are seeing. If your gaps are wider, it's not due to the axle. They do vary, quite considerably at times. If you run standard cast iron shoes it doesn't matter a bit. If you have lined shoes, you are driving in pouring rain, and you need to make a panic top for some reason, then the hand/emegency brake may be compromised.

Allan from down under.


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Re: new axle issue and proposed fix

Post by Alan Long » Mon Jan 21, 2019 6:39 am

I too had the same issue and although I agree it is purely a visual thing I didn’t like the appearance
of the back end. I managed to find cast iron 8” brake drums that were originally off a English vehicle that even
had a very similar hole pattern. After machining them to slightly larger outside diameter to the originals I machined
the width to what was needed to just clear my backing plates. One was slightly wider than the other but to
the naked eye it looks and works fantastic.
Alan


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Re: new axle issue and proposed fix

Post by Rick_Rice » Mon Jan 21, 2019 6:52 am

Guys,
I know this should go in the classified section, but all this talk about axles got my attention. I purchased a NOS parts lot from a 90 year old gentleman yesterday afternoon to support my 25 TT. One on the items in the lot is a brand new old axle that the man purchased from Dave H. out in Colorado many years ago and I opened the still-sealed shipping box with Dave's return label last night. It is for a car and obviously, it won't fit my TT. If anyone needs a brand new axle, I will let it go for $100.00 plus $15.00 shipping to the lower 48. Somebody will be very happy, but I just don't need it. Please, no PM's, feel free to call me on my cell. Have a great day!

Kind Regards,

Rick Rice (330)714-8151

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