Valve grinding or cutting new face question with picture

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Dave_Kriegel
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First Name: David
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Valve grinding or cutting new face question with picture

Post by Dave_Kriegel » Sun May 19, 2019 8:49 am

Well ALMOST done fixing a 1917 New rings wiring, carb but still way low compression. Take a look at the valve and seats. On number one cylinder I now have a continuous grind feel after 300 rotations of the lapping back and forth tool on intake but not exhaust. I am guessing I need to cut a new face. Tools are available but I do not know the size to buy a 30 70 or 45 degree cut size of opening and the guide 5/16 11/32 or 3/8 ??

I have ordered new valves and springs
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Topic author
Dave_Kriegel
Posts: 47
Joined: Sun May 05, 2019 8:50 am
First Name: David
Last Name: Kriegel
Location: Indiana
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: Valve grinding or cutting new face question with picture

Post by Dave_Kriegel » Sun May 19, 2019 8:51 am

Picture taken before starting lapping valve


Scott_Conger
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Re: Valve grinding or cutting new face question with picture

Post by Scott_Conger » Sun May 19, 2019 9:58 am

David

based on your questions regarding sizes and angles, it is clear that you did not read or follow the advice to call the folks that I posted for you on your other post on the same topic. If I was giving advice here, it would be the same as last time on your previous post.

I will tell you this, though. The block is much softer than the valve. Grinding an imperfect, burnt valve to a perfect seat in a burnt block will result in too deep of a seat, too much contact area, and a ruined block in the seat area, resulting in the need for insert-seats. Lapping is for a "kiss" seat of a perfect new valve into a perfect seat, and frankly, with the tool I had suggested, the mfg suggests to NOT lap the valve for reasons that become evident if YOU CALLED THEM.
Scott Conger

Full Flow Float Valves - deliver fuel like Henry intended!


Topic author
Dave_Kriegel
Posts: 47
Joined: Sun May 05, 2019 8:50 am
First Name: David
Last Name: Kriegel
Location: Indiana
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: Valve grinding or cutting new face question with picture

Post by Dave_Kriegel » Sun May 19, 2019 10:08 am

Thank you Scott I did call The person that specializes in Model T tools is off right now. There is a kit on sale on EBAy that says it is for Model T's bot it is a combination kit. I wanted to make sure it had the right cutter tool I will call them again Monday morning but if this ebay kit will do the job I will buy it today


Scott_Conger
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Re: Valve grinding or cutting new face question with picture

Post by Scott_Conger » Sun May 19, 2019 10:28 am

Dave

I have replied to your email and will take this opportunity to publicly apologise for coming across harshly on my post. You will find there is a fair amount of info to be found on that email.
Scott Conger

Full Flow Float Valves - deliver fuel like Henry intended!


Kenny Edmondson
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Re: Valve grinding or cutting new face question with picture

Post by Kenny Edmondson » Sun May 19, 2019 8:32 pm

The valve in the picture is the 2 piece valve that needs replaced. Need to replace all the valves and grind the seats. Can be done in the car.


TheMoneyPit
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First Name: Mark
Last Name: Wetherbee
Location: Coastal NC

Re: Valve grinding or cutting new face question with picture

Post by TheMoneyPit » Tue May 21, 2019 4:04 pm

http://www.newaymfg.com/cutters


Try this link. They also have a pdf available somewhere that gives you exactly the procedure for using the cutter, I have a set for a much larger car, 20 degrees clearance on top, 60 degrees clearance for the bottom, and 46 degrees for the seat, then follow the procedure to the letter for a perfect job.

I ALSO WANTED TO REITERATE THAT PUTTING A 2-PIECE VALVE BACK IN IS A COSTLY MISTAKE!!!!

the 90 year old 2-piece valves do fall apart and punch perfectly round holes in pistons... ask me how I know 😣
There is no such thing as a “free” lunch... :D


HaroldRJr
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Re: Valve grinding or cutting new face question with picture

Post by HaroldRJr » Tue May 21, 2019 5:23 pm

David - Listen to Scott Conger and Mark Wetherbee,....they have given you excellent advice!

I saw that "kit" you spoke of on eBay (if it's the one with the starting bid of $89) and frankly, it looks like a box of OLD junk to me! Those cutters are probably worn out, to say the least, and by the looks of the way they have been (and are being) treated, I'm sure they are worthless.

If you have not found the previous threads regarding the Neway valve seat cutting equipment here on the forum, at least read carefully the link that Mark just provided on his post above, and I can assure you that whatever you spend on the Neway cutters will be money well spent. I can't remember his name, but I know from experience that the Neway guy the specializes in the right cutters and such for Model T valve jobs is well worth waiting for to talk to. He will NOT mislead you, and he will help you spend your $$$ wisely. Years ago, he suggested to me just the vary basic components I needed for Model T's, and nothing more. Just one pilot, an adjustable one, that works very well, and two carbide valve seat cutters, a single 45 deg cutter, and one combination 30 deg/60 deg cutter (you just use it for the one cut, then turn it over for the other).

Now then,...in my estimation, here's the IMPORTANT thing:

If you must buy used equipment, buy used NEWAY cutters, because those carbide cutter blades are REPLACABLE, merely by loosening one set-screw each, and slipping in new carbide cutting blades. However, those are so tough that I would be very surprised if you needed any new ones, even for used Neway cutters that you might buy. Also, for what it's worth, even if you buy a used cutter and find that one or more of the individual blades is perhaps chipped or something, again, by loosening the one set-screw for each blade, it is possible to slide the individual blade in, or out, just a bit so that an "unchipped" portion of the blade actually cuts the very narrow one sixteenth inch wide or so valve seat. The fact that you can replace (or slightly reposition) one or more dull or chipped individual carbide cutters is not possible with those old and probably worn out cutters like those shown in that "kit" you're talking about on ebay.

I have nothing to do with the Neway company in any way,....I just know from experience that they make a very, VERY good product, and will help you spend your money wisely on only the very basic equipment you need for Model T valve jobs. They sure did so for me, and several other very satisfied folks I've read about here on the forum. For what it's worth,.....harold


HaroldRJr
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Re: Valve grinding or cutting new face question with picture

Post by HaroldRJr » Wed May 22, 2019 6:27 pm

David - As my "epistle" above was not "wordy" enough :roll: I really should have made one more comment in agreement with those who have advised to replace all those old 2-piece valves with new valves. If (and when) one of those old 2-piece valves "comes from together" (and one certainly will, sooner or later) it can do terrible damage! And here's an additional "plus" side to that, in that brand new valves, which are only 8 bucks apiece, preclude the work and trouble of having to "reface" the valves because the new ones should be perfect. Just look them over carefully and roll them around on something perfectly flat like a piece of glass, or glass tabletop, as it is possible to have a new valve that is bent, and that "roll-around" test, as crude as it may be, will reveal even the very slightest bent valve stem.

Please let us know what you decide Dave, and how it turns out,......harold

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