Demountable rims. Paint? Leave bare?

[signsup]

Just picked up set of wood demountable 21" rims for my WWI ambulance project. This will be T salad, so forget that it is military. WWI had no color or camo standas for vehicles, so I am free to design. hat do most people do with the demountable rims as far as color? Do you paint them the color of the spokes and inner rim and hub? So most leave bare metal? Or so some repaint but a shade of galvanized steel or dull steel or something metallic?
I will probably not stain the wood spokes, but paint the entire inner assembly a shade of dark gloss or semi gloss OD green. It will have a spare mounted on the side of the ambulance, so the demountable rim will be seen as a stand alone as well as on the vehicle as an assembly.
Can't tell much from old black and white photos, so just wondering what others have done.
I'll hang up and listen.

[jiminbartow]

Most people paint steel demountable rims silver or galvanize or zinc plate them, however, for realism, in wartime, they would not have wanted anything bright or reflective on the battlefield that would have drawn attention or fire, so they would have most likely been painted a flat olive drab or flat grey, like the rest of the vehicle to blend in with the battlefield surroundings the vehicle would have navigated in France. No bright or gloss colors. They may not have had a standard color scheme at the start of the war in 1914, but it didn’t take them long to learn what colors NOT to use. Try and think like them. Like you say, since there is no standard, there is no right or wrong answer, but simple common sense should provide you with an answer that won’t leave people scratching their heads upon viewing an unlikely paint scheme. Jim Patrick

[KWTownsend]

I would paint it all flat olive green.

: ^ )

Keith

[signsup]

Both good suggestions.
While I usually paint everything drab for my military vehicles, remember that this is an ambulance and painting everything OD flat green for camo and then painting huge white circle with red crosses on it seems counter productive. And, to this day, any vehicles marked with the red cross will not have a national ingisnia on it like a star or German cross.
I'll continue to explore this, but one option is to paint the rims a dull steel color that will not reflect light, but will show the genral public that they are steel and not wood and if I don't like the look, I can always top coat it with od green.
Just wonder why I see so many "civilian" Model T's with the demountable rims painted a bright silver, but the steel inner wheel rim and hubs painted black.

[TRDxB2]

Did a bit of research. First: for the US there appears to be ambulances belonging to the" "American Field Service", "Red Cross" and "Ambulance Service" (aka "United States Army Ambulance Service)". In attempting to colorize several WW1 photos I don't feel that any were the olive drab that we visualize as a WWII color. Also the colors of these vehicles may have been different based on the organization that belonged to.
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https://www.worldwar1centennial.org/ind ... rvice.html
The American Field Service (AFS) was a volunteer ambulance and camion corps serving with the French Army during World War I. AFS ceased to exist as an independent entity and was absorbed by the United States military when the United States entered the war in 1917.

The vehicle color appears to similar to others of the period that is more brown than green

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"RED Cross" images of Red Cross vehicles in WW1 may be mostly of the "British Red Cross" since the "American Red Cross" did not get involved until 1917: when the US declared war on Germany in 16 April 1917 and WWI ended 11 November 1918
British Red Cross vehicle

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The following account of the United States Army Ambulance Service in France is very much condensed from the complete historical report of the commanding officer of that service. see this link https://achh.army.mil/history/book-wwi- ... s-chapter6
you need to scroll down to "UNITED STATES ARMY AMBULANCE SERVICE IN FRANCE"

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From https://landships.activeboard.com/t5024 ... 1-to-1916/
The October 1918 US Army Ordnance Department publication “Painting Instruction for Camouflaging of Ordnance Vehicles” stated that “Prior to 1914 the only attempt to lessen visibility was by painting the vehicle with a monotone, battleship gray or olive drab.” The 1906 US War Department Circular 66 specified the use of Olive Drab for army wagons and indicated that this color could be mixed using 6 pounds White Lead in Linseed Oil, 1 pound Raw Umber pigment, 1 pint Turpentine, and ½ pint Japan Drier. Surviving samples show it to be lighter that World War II Olive Drab. This color remained standard through World War I, and was authorized in the annual editions of the “Manual for Quartermaster Corps, United States Army” through 1917.
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Perhaps this is what people in the WWI error refr to the color of Olive Drab as opposed to the WWII version

[signsup]

All good and accurate info. My experience with the 18 military vehicles I have in my personal motor pool starting with WWI and up to present day Humvees is that the shade of OD green is not only open to inerpretation, but starting with WWI, gradually gets darker and darker over the years. I am envisioning this WWI Model T ambulance 1917 to be a very light yelow side of OD green lusterless. But I do not like to paint every part and accessory of my vehicles exactly the same shade as it looks like the finished vehicles was dipped in a can of the same paint. In reality, different suppliers provided slightly different shades of OD green. It was wartime production...was an inspector for the QMC going to send parts back because they were off shade?
But, we digress...I'm think a little brass touch or reflective surface on an ambulance would not be unheard of.

I have seen some black and white photos of WWI ambulances with obvious white tires.

[jiminbartow]

Excellent research, Frank! From your pictures, it looks as if the spokes and rims are the same color as the body. Very helpful. I guess the only decision is whether to paint it flat battleship gray or WWI flat olive drab. I like the olive drab that is the same color as the WWI Uniform tunic. That seems like it would be the best camouflage for the battlefield ambulance. Jim Patrick

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[George House]

Robert, Have you ever envisioned what a WW I Model T ambulance would look like with late ‘24-‘26 wheels, rims and balloon tires ? Is it so difficult to find square wood felloe 3s and 3.5s ? .. Just curious; is your 1915 War Wagon a Nash Quad ?

[TRDxB2]

two more photos

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The correct painting depends on which organization & year is to be replicated. This a US Army version after which the color standard was adopted in 1918 (see above). It is not the same color for an "American Field Service" ambulance nor the WWII & beyond Olive Drab
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[Allan]

Robert, demountable rims on Civilian cars were Zinc plated rather than painted. That is why they appear silver in colour, and that is why many of them are painted with silver paint when they are restored. WW 1 production wheels would have all been non demountable wheels. That means the rims were painted the same colour as the rest of the wheel.

I agree with an earlier post. 21" wheels will look out of place to anyone who is familiar with Model T's

Allan from down under.

[signsup]

Thanks for all the input. I guess what I'm hearing, is to use what I have as a starting point and not trying to make this a factory class creation, is to paint everything od green so that, from a distance anyway, they do not appear to be demountables. I am starting with a 27 Depot Hack chassis and that is what I am converting to a 1917 T ambulance. But, it will always be a T salad. Just trying to represent the species with this project. So, yes, 27 fenders and running boards, radiator and hood and yes, 21" wheels to go over the 11" rear brakes. And, yes, it wil have a starter.
But vision is one thing and reality is another.
Again, thanks for the input. The plated rims on civilian wheels makes sense, but I'll go with all OD green on these.

The War Wagon was all Model T and Home Depot. No Nash's were harmed in the creation.

[NY John T]

When I searched WW 1 postcard ambulance I saw one painted gray for the front engine and fenders, and olive green for the whole ambulance rear wood section. Postcard color painters would have had a pretty good idea of the actual color scheme I think.

[Kaiser]

A couple years ago i did some extensive research into WW1 Ford ambulances, pertinent to your plan on colors;
The ambulances of the AFS were painted a light(ish) blue, as that was the standard colour of the French Armee, under which command it operated, there is only one original car left, it resides in France in the AFS museum near Paris.

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Most of the AFS ambulances were later fitted with Goodyear demountable rims, as Ford did not yet produce demountables then, the Goodyears can be identified by having 5 lugs

The Standardised US Army Ford ambulances of the 1917 model were painted a rather light olive drab

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In answer to your question : no bright finish or surface was allowed, so yes all rims were painted body color.

[jiminbartow]

Ernest Hemingway (1899-1961) was an ambulance driver during the Great War. He saw a lot of horrendous things and it affected his writing and his psych for the rest of his life. May have led to his suicide in 1961. Jim Patrick

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