Fix for ‘26-‘27 radiator shell crack

[schwabd1]

I’ve got a dent free ‘26-‘27 radiator shell with a 4” crack running parallel to the back edge on the top of the shell. I need to get that fixed before I send it off to get plated. First off, what’s the difference between brass welding and brazing? Either one of those an option? Silver solder? Silver bearing solder?

[Norman Kling]

Depends on whether you have a Brass shell or a Steel shell. It is my understanding that the Brass ones were plated and the Steel ones were painted. If Brass, you might want to take it to a shop which specializes in Brass. Steel can be welded or brazed and then grind to be smooth. But you need to find out whether the plating will stick to the weld. That would make a difference on what to use.
It might be less expensive to visit swap meets and look for a good shell that doesn't need welding.
Norm

[schwabd1]

It’s a brass shell

[jab35]

If it were mine, I would explore silver solder, but if you aren't experienced in that craft, that's not a project you want to "learn on". Best of luck, jb

[Distagon2]

My brother repaired a brass shell for me using silver solder. He worked in a shop that did brass repairs, such as musical instruments, etc. You might check with a large music store, one of the old-timey variety if they exist anymore. Big cities would be your best bet.

[TRDxB2]

I’ve got a dent free ‘26-‘27 radiator shell with a 4” crack running parallel to the back edge on the top of the shell. I need to get that fixed before I send it off to get plated. First off, what’s the difference between brass welding and brazing? Either one of those an option? Silver solder? Silver bearing solder?

You might try a musical repair shop (wind instruments). This guy looks old enough to appreciate a Model T & is in Northern Ohio
https://www.bing.com/search?form=MOZLBR ... ir+in+ohio

[Norman Kling]

Since the shell is brass, and if the crack is where I think it is from your description, there will be a lot of pressure on the edge where the hood fits. So you need the strongest weld, which would be brass and brass will hold the nickel plating. An experienced craftsman would be best to do the work unless you think it is worth trying yourself. The cost of having it done professionally might be more than the cost of a better shell from a swap meet or even on the forum or in your local club, someone might have one they could part with.
Norm

[Allan]

If you blokes can pass up a dent free brass radiator shell, you are blessed.

Usually it is not a crack, but a wear groove caused by an ill fitting hood. As such, some of the shell will be worn away. I have repaired such by using a right angled brass gusset piece on the inside of the shell and solver soldering it in place from the outside. My lack of skill in silver soldering means I have to use high silver content solder, so it costs me a bit.

Using an instrument repairer is a sound idea. Pun intended. Supplying the brass gusset piece may or may not help him.

Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.

[Craig Leach]

Hi David,
Depending on the brass aloy the melting Temp. may be slightly different but for the most part brass melts @ 1700* F copper @ 1980* F
Harris Stay-Silv 15% brazing rod melts @ 1480* F . A-C repairmen braze copper tubing with it & other similar 15% brazing rods. It flows
like solder ( maybe better) and in my experiance it is harder than brass or copper & may take chrome differently so it would be best to
braze the under side so as little as possible makes it to the chromed surface. Silvaloy I have found wicks very well so a snug fitting patch
on the under side would be possible. If you can find a experianced A-C guy that may be better than trying yourself as 1 lb. of 15% will run
upwards of $125. If I remember Harris sells a lower Temp. brazing wire in 1/4 lb. rolls. Give them a call to see what they recomend.
It may be a good idea to talk to chromer they may do these repairs also.
Craig.

[Wingnut]

Silver solder is the way to go, I did my 26/7 brass shell with it and then to plating at La Brandi in Pa. has held up for 20 years.

[Distagon2]

Remember, the brass shell was originally nickel plated and not chromium. When you get to that point.....

[TMiller6]

My two cents for your consideration.

I repaired my son’s brass horn with Safety Silv 45. This material was recommended to me because its brass color made it practically invisible once I buffed the brass.

They also offer Safety Silv 45T which has a lower melting point.

The weld shop I frequent sells this material or generic in one foot long sticks which were more affordable to me.

From Harrisproductsgroup.com:

“
Safety-Silv 45T performs like a 45% silver, cadmium-bearing, alloy, but is cadmium-free. It has a lower melting temperature than Safety-Silv 45. This alloy has excellent fillet-forming qualities. Safety-Silv 45T produces high-strength, ductile joints. NSF 51 certified for use with foodservice equipment..

Features

Cadmium-free silver brazing alloy
Performs like a 45% silver cadmium-bearing alloy
Lower melting temperature than Safety-Silv® 45
Good flow properties
Produces high-strength, ductile joints
Popular choice to braze copper, brass and steel”

[schwabd1]

Does the Safetysilv 45 or 45T accept nickel plating?

[Allan]

Yes, it will take nickel plating, but there is more to the story. A good quality nickel plating job is applied over copper plating. The copper plate is used to find blemishes/scratches, and these are polished out, and a second copper plate is applied. It's like primer, shadow coating, sanding, more primer when doing a top class paint job. This is why quality plating jobs cost as much as they do. It's all in the preparation under the nickel.

So the question should be can the silver repair be copper plated? Certainly. I have seen copper plated gum nuts made into ear rings, baby's first leather bootie copper plated, even a freeze dried rose bloom!

That 45% silver alloy is the stuff I use on brass repairs. It flows brilliantly, wicks into cracks well, is almost the same colour as brass and the low melting point gives greater margins for heating. The only drawback is the not inconsiderable cost.

Allan from down under

[TMiller6]

Forgot to mention, Equally important is the flux. My local weld shop also provided me with Harris brand flux and I believe it made a difference.

[signsup]

Dave, I lost yournumber call me. I have a decent, one blister, nickle plated shell that I was going to paint over for my ambulance. Seems a shame to waste this under a coat of paint. If we can figure out how to cosmetically fix your crack, I'd swap you shells as I'm just going to paint over it. You can have my shell and it might be acceptable as is or simply a plating job away.
I'll try to take some pics, but it may show up in my Utube stuck valve videos on another thread.

[John Codman]

I’ve got a dent free ‘26-‘27 radiator shell with a 4” crack running parallel to the back edge on the top of the shell. I need to get that fixed before I send it off to get plated. First off, what’s the difference between brass welding and brazing? Either one of those an option? Silver solder? Silver bearing solder?

You might try a musical repair shop (wind instruments). This guy looks old enough to appreciate a Model T & is in Northern Ohio
https://www.bing.com/search?form=MOZLBR ... ir+in+ohio

I agree with the first sentence. I would also check with whoever is going to electroplate the shell before you do anything. You don't want to use anything in the repair that will make it more difficult for the plater.

[signsup]

Dave, pics sent to email. I think you'll be happy with this one.

[Wayne Sheldon]

Forgot to mention, Equally important is the flux. My local weld shop also provided me with Harris brand flux and I believe it made a difference.

Been so long since I have done silver solder, that I was going to ask about flux for it. What is a good flux for it? I have several kinds, but some of what I have bought in recent years is garbage for even regular tin/lead solder (even though that is what it says it is for!).
A few years ago, for my 1915 runabout, I was trying to get the headlamps done. I had a couple decent later nickel plated brass rims I was thinking of turning into brass replacements, but they were just a bit too nice for me to want to ruin them for someone wanting decent original nickel rims for an original improved era car.
I also had three badly cracked brass rims with very little nickel remaining on them. I didn't have any silver solder handy, and the local welding supply said they didn't have any, so being in a hurry, I took the worst rim and tried my hand at welding the cracks with standard fluxed brazing rod. Anticipating the difficulties from past experiences, I found the right balance of backing support and temperatures to get good results. I had to replace a couple "sudden puddle" holes on that first one (the reason I worked on the worst one first!). But I was doing pretty well by the time I started on the second one with my scrap steel forms I made to support the work area. Depending upon circumstances (seriousness of the crack, location of rivets etc.), I usually C-clamped (small C-clamps) the support forms in place on the outside of the rim. and welded from the inside. Excess material could be ground off on the inside for fit, but since it was not to be seen once installed, did not need to be finished nicely. With the support from the steel forms on the outside, usually the outside needed only a quick filing with a fine sharp file followed by fine sanding.
They are not perfect, but from five feet away they look darn good!

And of course, I followed welding with a general annealing of the entire rim!

The hardest part of welding brass that way? Temperature control! Even with steel pieces supporting the hot brass, a few degrees too cool, and the material will not flow well! Only a few degrees to hot? And support or no support, and there will be a sizeable hole with a puddle nearby!

Between the three rims, I welded just short of a hundred cracks in them! (No good original brass rims were harmed in making my "replacement" brass rims!)

Another interesting (and necessary) side note? You do have to be careful of shrinkage on something like a headlamp rim due to welding! If you pull all the cracks tight, C-clamp and weld? The rim's diameter WILL shrink slightly, and likely enough that the rim will NOT go onto the headlamp bucket! Fortunately for me, I expected this effect, and monitored the fit as I went along. I did have to on some cracks fill a slight gap to compensate for the expected shrinkage. (May you benefit from my experience!) A couple cracks in a radiator shell should not seriously effect the fit of the shell onto a radiator.