I was a bit surprised at the club meeting...

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Steve Jelf
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I was a bit surprised at the club meeting...

Post by Steve Jelf » Fri May 31, 2019 4:26 pm

...to find that the idea of Model T touring in the Flint Hills was decidedly unpopular. The biggest objections seemed to be: the roads are too rough; there aren't enough restrooms; it would be too tough for old people.


IMG_1997 copy.JPG
When I drove through there last fall I didn't find the roads any worse than the ones I drive on around here. One member offered to bring a trailer with a flush toilet, but that didn't win anybody over. Shorty isn't three years old yet, and I'm only seventy-eight, so it isn't too tough for us. We'll explore the Flint Hills on our own. :D
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Mark Gregush
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Re: I was a bit surprised at the club meeting...

Post by Mark Gregush » Fri May 31, 2019 4:34 pm

I don't find it surprising at all! Looks like a great place to tour, open space no other cars.
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :roll:

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Re: I was a bit surprised at the club meeting...

Post by aDave » Fri May 31, 2019 4:36 pm

Can't speak to the roads, as I have not seen nor ridden on them, but reading about the Flint Hills makes me want to join you Steve. (But, alas, not this year - other things on my plate at the moment).


Reading material:

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-cul ... 180970545/

Dave

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Re: I was a bit surprised at the club meeting...

Post by Matt in California » Fri May 31, 2019 5:33 pm

Steve,
Thanks for letting us join you on the tour!

Please post more pictures!

Matthew

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Re: I was a bit surprised at the club meeting...

Post by Jeff Perkins » Fri May 31, 2019 5:52 pm

While driving through Kansas a few years ago we happened to drive through Flint Hills. Never realized how beautiful that area is, looks like a great place to drive a Model T!
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Re: I was a bit surprised at the club meeting...

Post by Chris Paulsen » Fri May 31, 2019 6:36 pm

I've got a few comments...

First, if you were surprised by it at the club meeting, why not bring it up at the club meeting?

I took the conversation about touring the Flint Hills in the context of being a suitable location for our annual tour. Because of the following the tour has gained over the years, it may not work. It may be suitable for a second tour or a one-day event.

I've driven a fair bit in the Flint Hills. The roads would have to be chosen wisely. There are some that are coarse stone and could tear up tires and cars pretty quickly. Additionally, yes, when inviting a varied group, a stop with a bathroom every hour or so is a necessity.

Lastly, and perhaps most importantly, it would have to be advertised exactly as it is, with total miles, number of dirt miles, and what type of dirt, gravel or stone, so people know what they are getting into. It's a great hobby, but different people enjoy it differently, and I wouldn't want someone to show up having no idea what they are getting into.

Lastly, it sounds fun; put something together. You might be surprised how many of our club members show up.


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Re: I was a bit surprised at the club meeting...

Post by Steve Hughes » Fri May 31, 2019 9:46 pm

I love touring in the Flint Hills. But I like back roads and will go about anywhere in my T. If you want to put together a tour there l, Steve, count me in.

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Re: I was a bit surprised at the club meeting...

Post by Steve Jelf » Fri May 31, 2019 10:21 pm

...it sounds fun; put something together.

My great grandfather settled in Chase County when he came down from Wisconsin after the Civil War. I aim to go see the place and explore the the other back roads too. After that I may indeed put something together. I don't know what to do about the restroom thing, though.
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Re: I was a bit surprised at the club meeting...

Post by Adam » Fri May 31, 2019 10:34 pm

I’d go!!!


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Re: I was a bit surprised at the club meeting...

Post by Burger in Spokane » Sat Jun 01, 2019 2:57 am

I met a friend a while back at a Starbucks coffee joint. While there, I overheard a group
of people discussing how they had been "deprived" of "a good life" by some evil forces they
saw in an amorphous "rich", "greedy" bunch of people, power, and politics. They were all quite
committed to their feeling of having been dealt a terrible series of injustices to live so low.
Intrigued, I watched where they went after the walked out the door. It was truly heart wrenching
to see one get into a late model Mercedes, another a new BMW. I was forced to ponder what
this "good life" they felt deprived of might look like to them, and how they'd air their grievances
if relocated to real world places outside their Disneyland world, like the Congo, North Korea,
or Maiwand, Afghanistan.

By extension, so many Americans feel that what is normal in most of the world, is horrendous
suffering and beyond the pale. Conversely, what many Americans think is absolutely unacceptable
would be considered wonderful luxury by most of the world's population.

Harsh roads ? No toilet facilities ? It is hard to fathom how anyone might endure such hardships,
especially when buried under the irony of what a Model T was and is.
More people are doing it today than ever before !

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Re: I was a bit surprised at the club meeting...

Post by Walter Higgins » Sat Jun 01, 2019 8:54 am

Was this the rich and greedy politician they were discussing at Starbucks?:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwObeQBGBb8

(Apologies for the drift!)


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Re: I was a bit surprised at the club meeting...

Post by gclaytonsr » Sat Jun 01, 2019 10:21 am

Steve, Those roads they are describing sound like the one we live on here in Missouri !

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Re: I was a bit surprised at the club meeting...

Post by Steve Jelf » Sat Jun 01, 2019 11:12 am

Those roads they are describing sound like the one we live on here in Missouri !

I did get on a really bad one last fall when I took a wrong turn, but most of them were just normal country roads. Planning a tour, of course, you avoid the bad ones and drive the route to be sure it's OK, and to make notes for tour directions.
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Re: I was a bit surprised at the club meeting...

Post by Aarongriffey » Sat Jun 01, 2019 11:49 am

The folks that find Flint Hills too rough sure wouldn’t want to drive Rhett T through Oakland, Ca. Then.


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Re: I was a bit surprised at the club meeting...

Post by Aarongriffey » Sat Jun 01, 2019 11:50 am

Should be their T


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Re: I was a bit surprised at the club meeting...

Post by Aarongriffey » Sat Jun 01, 2019 11:53 am

When I drive to Wisconsin this fall I’m gonna be sure to go through flint hills.


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Re: I was a bit surprised at the club meeting...

Post by Shirkwood » Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:19 am

I have some experience in traveling in the Flint Hills of Kansas and a small part of Oklahoma. It is a narrow band 93 miles (150 km) by 157 miles (252 km) with “abundant residual flint eroded from the bedrock that lies near the surface” (per Flint Hills - Wikipedia). It is near impossible to plow but works great for cattle grazing. The roads in the region vary from narrow ribbons where tires have worn down the vegetation to blacktop. In between, there are a few roads that, while are two lanes wide, they are not what I would call an excellent surface for driving any vehicle on.

My wife has owned land in the Flint Hills in Chase County for about 30 years. It is located nine miles off of a blacktop road on one of the two lane roads. Actually, the two-lane runs on the west side of it and a much less maintained one-lane runs on the eat side of it. We have traversed that section of the Flint Hills quite a few times in our modern vehicles and a couple times in our daughter’s 1914 T Touring. One of those times I lost a door off of a sidelight. A couple of other times, I ruined tires on “modern” cars. All of those times we were on the more improved roads. The roads are made up of the native limestone with bits of flint mixed in. The tire failures were both due to sharp flint rocks and well-worn tires. I makes me think the roadway is not exactly good for any tire!

As for bathrooms, well, they are few and far between. In the route that we normally take to visit the land, we leave Cottonwood Falls, KS, (a neat town to visit) and do not see another bathroom for about 60 miles until we get to Newton, KS. It takes us more than an hour to drive that in a modern car and considerably longer in a Model T. We usually stop a time or two or three to take pictures. Yes, it is picturesque! My wife even has a few paintings of the area.

My wife’s dad helped with the establishment of the Tallgrass Prairie National Preserve north of Cottonwood Falls a few miles. Nearby ranchers did not want the Preserve but my father-in-law convinced them that if they had a place were the public could actually access the land, the public would not be trespassing on theirs! He was a great mediator between the government and the ranchers of the area. In fact, after he passed away, my wife and her brothers were invited to “break ground” for the new Visitors Center a few years back that is located at the Tallgrass Prairie National Preserve.

Yes, driving through the Flint Hills is fun! I personally like driving my T for miles in areas that are desolate. It is about as close to what tourists experienced in pre-1915 Kansas and points west. I don’t generally have problems with there being no bathroom. Early travelers didn’t have a rest area or convenience store to stop at. I can sympathize with those who can’t or don’t want to use primitive facilities, especially, those of the female variety. Like Chris Paulsen says, “plan a tour in the Flint Hills”, but I agree with him, I don’t think it would be suitable for our annual Flatland T’s Tour. I too would certainly outline specifically what type of road surfaces and bathroom stops are available. I have antique cars I would certainly NOT tour with on Flint Hills back roads. I know others feel the same.

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Re: I was a bit surprised at the club meeting...

Post by Steve Jelf » Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:58 pm

Brent Burger's comment reminds me that Mom and her sisters were farm girls born in horse & buggy days. They had no problem using an old time outhouse, or a secluded spot in the great outdoors if there wasn't one. I suppose it depends on where and when you were raised. But even outhouses and suitably secluded spots are pretty sparse in Chase County. I agree that would be a problem in planning a tour. I don't know of a solution to that other than Bud's offer of a trailered toilet. Some folks would be fine with that, others not.

PS You don't have to hold it until you get the Newton. Florence is halfway.
:D
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Re: I was a bit surprised at the club meeting...

Post by George N Lake Ozark » Sun Jun 02, 2019 5:36 pm

Attachments
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Re: I was a bit surprised at the club meeting...

Post by Burger in Spokane » Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:31 pm

Yup, ... and I was raised up on a farm. We took our leave wherever was close, when out
away from the house. Woods, fields, wherever. Just how busy is Flint Hills to keep a person
from doing it the way original T owner/travelers did when the next Cracker Barrel or rest
stop was still 50 years in the future ?

I guess my point is in not letting things get in the way of an awesome experience. Sounds
like Model T nirvana to make a tour like this. Pulling over and taking care of business behind
the car seems too easy to this farm kid. If this tour does take place, please take lots of photos !
More people are doing it today than ever before !

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Re: I was a bit surprised at the club meeting...

Post by D.Yoder » Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:30 am

George, That is the Goodie bag for the tour :lol:

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Re: I was a bit surprised at the club meeting...

Post by ironhorse » Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:17 am

Wish I could go on a tour there ....maybe someday! ;)
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Re: I was a bit surprised at the club meeting...

Post by Dennis_Brown » Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:08 pm

Are there any bushes along the roads in the flint hills? Of course my wife would be afraid that there might be a snake hiding behind one of them.

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Re: I was a bit surprised at the club meeting...

Post by Steve Jelf » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:36 am

Are there any bushes along the roads in the flint hills?
IMG_2002 copy.JPG
Yeah, a few. :D
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Re: I was a bit surprised at the club meeting...

Post by Duey_C » Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:07 am

:)
Those are roads even I would travel with ANY of my ol' clunkers! Albeit at a slower pace.
Beautiful scenes Steve.
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Re: I was a bit surprised at the club meeting...

Post by aDave » Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:37 am

Toilet for a T.jpg


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Re: I was a bit surprised at the club meeting...

Post by noelchico » Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:29 am

Dave, I think most of the ladies would appreciate some sort of privacy screen. :D To add to Burger's comment above, one of the pastors, born in ND and spending 30+ years in South America or the Dominican Republic, commented on our recent medical mission trip "Most Americans are born on 3rd base and think they've hit a triple." We have no concept of how most of the world really lives or what barriers there are to improving their lot in life. To make this T related, I've been driving my roadster to work all week.

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