Can I adjust my hand crank engagement position?

[signsup]

Project 26/27 chassis and electric start fires it right up. Need to charge magnets to get magneto working. But I want to hand crank it once in a while and when I engage the hand crank, it is at the 9:00 position when facing the car and the upward pull with my fingers underneath and thumbs not engaged, just doesn't quite get one full compression stroke.
It's awfully close at the 12:00 position and this engine is just begging me to go that little extra over the top and I an't gonna go there.
So, is there a way to get my crank to engage at the 8:00 position or so? I was thinking if I removed the nut and added a washer and reinstalled the nut, it might tighten down with the lugs a little earlier in the rotation and give me an earlier engagement point?

Or is there another way to prevent a trip to the OR?

[Mark Nunn]

When you get your fenders on, hold your right hand on the fender for leverage and pull with your left. It helps pull the crank over the top.

[Allan]

Robert, your crank handle is most likely worn and loose in the crankcase snout. An easy and most satisfactory fix would involve replacing the crankcase bush first. Then, to repair the worn handle, cut it off just outboard of the rear and weld in a piece of replacement 3/4" rolled steel rod. The trick is to re-drill the hole for the crank dog to allow the dog to engage the pin in the crankshaft pulley to engage earlier. You might need to map the original hole position prior to cutting to give you a reference for drilling your new hole.

Hope this helps.

Allan from down under.

[jiminbartow]

Will removing the ratchet fitting on the crank and remounting it 180 degrees, reposition the 4 ratchet teeth so the crank engages in a more desirable position?

[Humblej]

Yea Gads! everybody just stop! this is not a mechanical problem!

Yes, you can and should adjust your crank handle position before you try to crank start, this is how you do it. With the key off, engage the crank and pull up until the crank handle is at the 10:00 position, now you can re-engage the crank at about the 8:00 position. You can get a good safe pull from about 8:00 to 10-11:00...no going over the top, and no mechanical modifications to the crank ratchet.

Personally, when I hand crank a cold T engine, I first set the mixture knob at 1.5 turns, with the key off I engage the crank and give it a 1/4 pull with the choke on, and make sure the crank is positioned at 8:00 for the next pull. Fully retard the spark, key on BAT, and with my left hand pull the crank up briskly.

In my opinion, broken arms are not caused by thumbs over the crank handle, but by a combination of cranking with a right arm and the engine that starts to run backwards. If your engine starts backwards (counter clockwise), the crank ratchet will not disengage and it will pull out of your hand swing around counterclockwise and hit your right arm that is still inside the arc of the hand crank. Pulling with your left arm keeps the arm mostly outside the swing of the crank.

Regardless of how you crank a T, it is a dangerous thing to do, being distracted by other people increases the risk by making a mistake, like leaving the spark advanced, etc.

[signsup]

Well, I've got to go down to the workshop and try this as soon as I can. Makes perfect sense. I do have extra cranks that have bad grips, but good spouts if I need to do something physical to it, but the pre staging sounds like it should work.
I'll report back...if I'm not in the ER.

[John kuehn]

If your car has a starter why not use it. Don’t join the show off club that goes to a parade and then hand crank a T just because you can. But your you and if you want to go ahead. There is no reason to change anything if your crank handle is in the correct position, the crank ratchet isn’t worn or wallowed out and the crankshaft pin isn’t twisted. With that said you should have the spark fully retarted, and your timing set correctly. And when in doubt read the Model T owners handbook. It’s good to remember that Model T’s aren’t toys and hand cranking is serious business and not to be taken lightly. Just ask the guys who have gotten a broken wrist, wrenched shoulders and other such hurtful things. Have fun with your T of course and good luck.

[Steve Jelf]

Jeff's suggestion of how to position the handle is perfect. The hole position on a crank cannot possibly change, in a week, a year, or a century. It is extremely unlikely that one crank handle was made wrong and the error is just being discovered nearly 100 years later. A badly worn ratchet, a badly worn bushing, a badly worn handle, all may hamper the ease of starting. But how likely is it that any of those has changed the hole position?

Whenever the subject of hand starting comes up, I repeat the story of my broken wrist from stupid cranking. It was an Allis Chalmers Model B, not a Ford Model T. The differences are many and obvious. But the rules for hand cranking are exactly the same. 1 Only pull up, never go over the top. 2 Pull with the left hand. I have never heard a valid excuse for violating either rule. "Oh, but I'm right-handed." So am I. So what? This is only pulling. It's not handwriting or pitching a baseball. NO manual dexterity is needed. Forget all the preposterous excuses and do it correctly.

If you make correct starting such a habit that you do it every time, even when there are distractions, you can reach the goal of doing it correctly even when you're not thinking about it. A kickback happens instantly. Once it happens the damage will be done before you know it. That realization will come to you when you're lying on the ground, passing out from the pain.

For those who haven't seen it, here's how fast a kickback happens: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_pXv4VsYxQ

[Tadpole]

Amen Steve. Cranking isn't dangerous unless you make it so.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

Jeff's suggestion of how to position the handle is perfect. The hole position on a crank cannot possibly change, in a week, a year, or a century. It is extremely unlikely that one crank handle was made wrong and the error is just being discovered nearly 100 years later. A badly worn ratchet, a badly worn bushing, a badly worn handle, all may hamper the ease of starting. But how likely is it that any of those has changed the hole position?

Whenever the subject of hand starting comes up, I repeat the story of my broken wrist from stupid cranking. It was an Allis Chalmers Model B, not a Ford Model T. The differences are many and obvious. But the rules for hand cranking are exactly the same. 1 Only pull up, never go over the top. 2 Pull with the left hand. I have never heard a valid excuse for violating either rule. "Oh, but I'm right-handed." So am I. So what? This is only pulling. It's not handwriting or pitching a baseball. NO manual dexterity is needed. Forget all the preposterous excuses and do it correctly.

If you make correct starting such a habit that you do it every time, even when there are distractions, you can reach the goal of doing it correctly even when you're not thinking about it. A kickback happens instantly. Once it happens the damage will be done before you know it. That realization will come to you when you're lying on the ground, passing out from the pain.

For those who haven't seen it, here's how fast a kickback happens: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_pXv4VsYxQ

All very well stated Steve!

However, is that really the video you intended? I see no kickback.