T dieing. Overheating issues.

[LittleTimmy52]

I drove a bit longer than usual but I was just 4 miles to 4 MI back. The engine just turned off the way there and it did it twice more the way back. I was running on high gear most of the time between 25 and 30 mph. I think it was overheating. Is 50/50 coolant bad? Is it something with the air fuel mixture? Is there a way I can check to see if the fan spins properly? Thanks.

[LittleTimmy52]

To clarify by turning off it's as if the magneto just stopped generating electricity like if I switched it to off, I did not try running off the battery alone nor did I try switching to battery when the engine cut off and it was still rolling.

[Moxie26]

As a new Model T enthusiast, we welcome you. I believe the best thing and help for you right now would be to look for local chapter members in your Florida area so they can first hand look at your engine and be of better help..... You have to remember that the Model T had none of the features of modern cars... The timing of the engine can change, the fuel mixture can change, the throttle changes with the road qualities,... You can look at the chapter availability in your area and that may be the start for your help.

[John kuehn]

Sounds like you got some lint or something under the magneto post which is fairly common and your post sounds like it just stopped on mag. When things like your talking about happens ALWAYS check the mag post for debris or the ignition switch contacts may need cleaning. Maybe a loose coil box wire could do it.
Check the simple things first as that’s what it usually turns out to be.

And by the way when my T quit suddenly on mag I switchd to battery and went on along. If your T starts and runs OK on battery then you know it’s a mag issue. That’s an automatic thing to do when your car quits on mag.

[Jones in Aiken SC]

Be sure the contacts in your switch are maintaining contact. Some are kind of limp and can jiggle out of position intermittently. If they are "limp" it is pretty easy to pry the brass contacts up a little bit, and reassemble.

[LittleTimmy52]

Thanks for the replys, a month ago I cleaned out the switch box and coil box, the contacts i meant, I triple made sure everything was right and in good contact, so in terms of the switch and coils it is fine. I don't know if that's how it works, but, I'm thinking, stupid me = too hot = magneto stop working because of heat. i have a scooter that does the same thing, its coil and stuff quits when hot. that's my rational anyways. Also it was hot compared to my usual short mile and a half trips.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

You're not overheating if you're not blowing steam out of the radiator overflow tube.

When you say it shuts off, do you mean it quits and won't restart until it cools off, or that it momentarily cuts out, then picks up again? As others mentioned, your magneto may be working intermittently. Try running on battery and see if things improve.

[LittleTimmy52]

You're not overheating if you're not blowing steam out of the radiator overflow tube.

When you say it shuts off, do you mean it quits and won't restart until it cools off, or that it momentarily cuts out, then picks up again?

I didn't try to restart out of fear, so I wouldn't be able to clarify, but if it helps, there was a very very small momentary stutter before total loss. can the mag quit working at x temperature? also idk the health of the magneto if you will., maybe its going bad and dosen't like heat?

[John kuehn]

Overheating won’t cause the mag to quit. If anything it would be the mag post not making good contact to the mag ring or something in the switch as mentioned. That area can get small pieces of debris under it and then no contact. Fairly common. The mag post is on top of the transmission cover held down by 3 screws. Sometimes the spring gets off to the side of the contact and will cause a T to just quit running. Hope this can help you.

Was your car boiling over when your driving it and it quit?

[Allan]

Next time it does it, open the tap on the carburetor fuel bowl and see if you have a good flow of fuel. Perhaps the flow is restricted, and the stoppage allows it to be replenished somewhat, so you can again make progress, until it draws down again.

Allan from down under.

[Steve Jelf]

Start with the easiest thing. If a car running on MAG suddenly dies for no apparent reason, look for a loose wire. If that's not the problem, then move on to other possibilities.

Do you have steam? If not, overheating isn't your problem. The coolant — plain water, 50/50, or straight antifreeze — is irrelevant.

[Bill Robinson]

I am assuming that the car has the fuel tank under the seat? A very common problem for a problem like yours is “vapor lock” in the fuel line. This is especially possible if the fuel line has been removed, or replaced, and somehow got re-shaped to a point the the line is running too close to the exhaust pipe. Excess heat creates a bubble in the line and stops fuel flow until the exhaust cools down. Sometimes a 1/2” clearance can stop the problem.

[Bill Robinson]

I’ve also had a problem with Shut downs caused by a fuel tank baffle that is loose in the tank and moves to a point in the tank to where it covered the fuel exiting point in the bottom of the tank. Of course, both problems that I discussed would be eliminated if the engine runs well once you switch the key to battery.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

I didn't try to restart out of fear... can the mag quit working at x temperature?

There's nothing at all to be afraid of in trying to restart it. No, heat has no impact on the magneto.

As to overheating, you've been asked a couple of times if the coolant was boiling/steaming. Was it?? If not, you were not overheating.

Your issue really appears, (to me anyway), to either be fuel delivery or a faulty mag post. To prove out the mag post issue, run it on battery. If it still cuts out, then your magneto is not the problem.

[LittleTimmy52]

There wasn't steam out the overflow no boiling, as for the post, I can't check at the moment, but I'll surely check it. It only happened hot my issues, the suggestions on it being fuel related seem more feasible. But I'm waiting on parts now for some other things, so only once I actually run it again will I know for certain.

[Norman Kling]

Check to see if the engine will turn over with the starter or hand crank. Set the parking brake when you do this. If it will not turn, the engine is too tight and you will need to let it cool off before it will start again. If it does turn over, starter or crank, then you most likely have either a fuel starvation or or ignition malfunction. See if you are getting spark by turning ignition to battery and slowly turn the crank. you should get spark in order as the crank rotates 1,2,4,3,1,2,4,3 etc. If you have a fuel filter other than the sediment bulb at the gas tank, remove it. The fuel flows by gravity flow so it does not have enough pressure to go through a filter. Also if you have the tank under the seat, the fuel level might be too low. I have a 22 which will not go up a hill unless the tank has at least 2 or 3 gallons in it. So keeping it on the full side is better than letting it run low if you go up hills or run at higher speeds.
Norm

[LittleTimmy52]

I have made a discovery. As most know, exhaust is hot and copper is good at conducting heat. i looked and the fuel line at one point is only an inch away from the exhaust, so problem spotted. Well a problem, once I get my new belt and I make a heat sheild and insulate the tube as well, I might find more, who knows? Thanks everyone for your replies, but now I think I got the issue

[Moxie26]

Well that's a good start there Little Timmy 52..... Keep us posted on your progress. Thanks!

[speedytinc]

Your fuel line should be steel. If you use compression fittings on copper, you risk a line shear.
Start over & run a new steel line per factory locations & mounts without high & low spots.

[Moxie26]

Useful info to replace the gas line from tank to carb.

[Allan]

Even in our summer temperatures in excess of 100 degrees, I have never experienced vapour lock. I do not have experience with the variations in fuel quality you blokes have to deal with though. 1" clearance between the exhaust pipe and fuel line is ample in my experience.

Your fuel line should be steel rather than copper, and it should be fitted with standard T model packing and packnuts. Neither the inlet elbow on the carburetor and the outlet on the under tank fuel bowl are machined to properly form a compression ferule around a copper fuel line.

The diagram posted is helpful, but the route and bends required may well be far different, depending on the orientation of the pumpkin on the tank. If the outlet is further around under the tank, you will need a longer pipe, or you may need to pay attention to the thread on the tank/outlet to change the orientation.

Allan from down under.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

I have made a discovery. As most know, exhaust is hot and copper is good at conducting heat. i looked and the fuel line at one point is only an inch away from the exhaust, so problem spotted. Well a problem, once I get my new belt and I make a heat sheild and insulate the tube as well, I might find more, who knows? Thanks everyone for your replies, but now I think I got the issue

Don't just make a heat shield. Reroute the fuel line away from the exhaust. As others state, you really should have a steel fuel line.

[LittleTimmy52]

I have some good news, A the forum is now working for me and I can reply again. B i insulated the line where it goes near the exhaust, apart from a freeze plug falling out it is working fine. Then again, I did not go far. As much as it would be better to reshape the line, I dont want to crack this old copper line, nor do I want to bend in a new steel one. my only real question left is how far should these things be going, is a 8 mile round trip too much? what should a typical drive cycle be?

Note, I already dealt with the freeze plug issue.

[TXGOAT2]

A T that is in good order can run from coast to coast. Your car should run as long as it has fuel if it is good running condition. If you are in doubt about the cooling system, I'd carry several extra gallons of water. You should be able to easily go a hundred miles or more before the oil needs checked or added to. Oil everything on the car that moves, and go drive it. I'd keep speeds at or below 30 MPH until I had time to become familiar with the car and any issues it might have. Carry a few gallons of water and a couple of quarts of oil. You need good tires on any car. If your car has an electric starter, have a good battery in it. Start with the crankcase oil at the proper level, radiator filled, and the car fully lubricated and the rear axle lube at the correct level. Have you checked the condition of the front wheel bearings? If you have wooden wheels, are they in good condition with all hardware tight?

[TXGOAT2]

Having someone familiar with Model Ts look your car over and go for a ride with you in it would be very helpful!

[TXGOAT2]

It's best to drive any car at least ten miles any time you start it, especially in cold weather. More is better.

[LittleTimmy52]

It's best to drive any car at least ten miles any time you start it, especially in cold weather. More is better.

well Im down here in florida where its real hot and humid all the time. But 10 miles give or take is what they should handle? or should I go less due to heat and humidity?

[TXGOAT2]

The car does not care how far you drive it, as long as it is properly serviced. I'd want to drive ten miles or more to drive moisture out of the crankcase, even in Florida. You may experience issues in Florida related to carburetor Icing if your car lacks a heat pipe. That usually happens before the engine warms up. It can cause poor idle. The cure is to keep driving.

[TXGOAT2]

When I get in my Model T, I make sure it's full of gasoline, then I get in it and drive it as far as I care to, which is usually 20 to 40 miles, and often father. I've driven it in temperatures from around 45 F to over 105 F with no problems.

[Steve Jelf]

Don't obsess about overheating. That should not be a problem for a well-done Model T, even in Florida. If your car's cooling system is not up to specs, research that and fix it.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

I have some good news, A the forum is now working for me and I can reply again. B i insulated the line where it goes near the exhaust, apart from a freeze plug falling out it is working fine. Then again, I did not go far. As much as it would be better to reshape the line, I dont want to crack this old copper line, nor do I want to bend in a new steel one. my only real question left is how far should these things be going, is a 8 mile round trip too much? what should a typical drive cycle be?

Note, I already dealt with the freeze plug issue.

The farthest I've driven in 1 day is 325 miles. Eight miles should be no sweat... These cars are not delicate.

[LittleTimmy52]

Can just leaving it on idle suffice as a road test, A I don't want it to throw a tantrum and be towed home from far and B if anything goes wrong can fix it there and then all from the comfort and safety of my backyard. If idleing can suffice, that would be better, I want to catch things now and not when it stops on the side of the road miles away.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

Can just leaving it on idle suffice as a road test, A I don't want it to throw a tantrum and be towed home from far and B if anything goes wrong can fix it there and then all from the comfort and safety of my backyard. If idleing can suffice, that would be better, I want to catch things now and not when it stops on the side of the road miles away.

Just idling can be fine, but it's not a road test. You really need to stop being afraid of this car.

[RecklessKelly]

Been driving old cars and bikes my whole life. It was rare that I had a breakdown. A blown radiator hose, wet ignition, loose points screw, lack of gas, all resolved without needing a tow, except when I hit a shard of metal with a new bike 30 miles from home and blew out the rear tire. That was a $400 flatbead ride home.
The more you drive it, the more you will trust it. If the car is well sorted, dont be afraid to fill the tank and take a long drive. It doesnt matter if you break down one mile or 100 miles away, you still need a flatbed if you cant fix it roadside. If you did the fuel flow check and have coolant filled to the top of the radiator core, the car should keep running and shouldnt overheat. Bring some extra water, gas, oil and tools to be prepared if something happens.

[Steve Jelf]

You really need to stop being afraid of this car.

Jerry is exactly correct. After several years of never driving a Model T more than twenty miles from home, I drove my 1915 to a club function 125 miles away. Did I have any trouble? Sure. Was it a major disaster that has made me stay home? No. The following year I drove the same car to the Old Car Festival in Dearborn. That trip took me out of Kansas, through Missouri, Illinois, Indiana, and Michigan. The trip home was by way of Michigan, Chicago, Wisconsin, Iowa, Missouri, and Kansas. Did I have any trouble? You bet. I dealt with it. I am NOT an expert mechanic. I have often had to rely on people with more knowledge and experience. So what? I had a great time, and I wouldn't trade the memories for anything.

There's a good reason these cars have been around for 100 years.

Maybe this will help:
https://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG121_Model-T-Travel.html

[LittleTimmy52]

Can just leaving it on idle suffice as a road test, A I don't want it to throw a tantrum and be towed home from far and B if anything goes wrong can fix it there and then all from the comfort and safety of my backyard. If idleing can suffice, that would be better, I want to catch things now and not when it stops on the side of the road miles away.

Just idling can be fine, but it's not a road test. You really need to stop being afraid of this car.

It's not that I'm afraid, I've been driving it whenever weather is clear and I don't have work. I just wanted to know if I could idle test it because I want to get the demons out before going on the road so I don't need to walk home, get my dad and his truck and toe it home multiple times.

[LittleTimmy52]

The weather is suckey today and it will be tomorrow, but hopefully Wednesday is clear, if it is I'll do a longer road test, and by that I mean I'm taking it the 1.6 mile trip to school, if it can do that, think my faith in it will be restored at least partially.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

It's not that I'm afraid, I want to get the demons out before going on the road so I don't need to walk home, get my dad and his truck and toe it home multiple times.

Please be aware, towing a Model T, even a short distance, can ruin the transmission. If you absolutely have to tow it, do it very slowly and keep the engine in gear. Meaning, the engine will be turning while towing.

[LittleTimmy52]

It's not that I'm afraid, I want to get the demons out before going on the road so I don't need to walk home, get my dad and his truck and toe it home multiple times.

Please be aware, towing a Model T, even a short distance, can ruin the transmission. If you absolutely have to tow it, do it very slowly and keep the engine in gear. Meaning, the engine will be turning while towing.

well i hope the just under a mile toe didnt wreck anything (I mean i ran it a few streets after fixing what stranded me and it drove fine), i had to, i did it slow but in neutral. why cant I keep it in neutral durring a toe?

[jab35]

You will burn out the ballcap bearing and wear out the clutch plates for lack of oil. Engine flywheel splashes oil to lubricate the transmission, without engine turning there's no splash. Ford repair handbook tells you about this and recommends removing sparkplugs and then tow slowly while in high gear to keep everything oiled. jb

[speedytinc]

A model T clutch does not completely disengage the transmission like a modern manual transmission.

Its a planetary system, "neutral" is a lack of hold feature in such a system. The output & brake drum is still spinning on the center shaft also engaging & spinning the triple gears. Thats 6 bushings spinning plus the 4th main & clutch disk faces. All done without benefit of ANY splash oil from a revolving flywheel. Triple gear bushings are most @ risk running dry first. That can seize the pins to the bushings.

Its risky to tow in neutral. As stated, removing the plugs & pulling in gear is safer. Loading onto a flat bed is best.

[Steve Jelf]

I wish you lived near me. We could work on how to drive, and how to not feel like you're driving on egg shells. Let me narrow down the scope of this discussion. Are you a good Model T driver? By that I mean, do you know what to do enough to feel confident? Let's go back to the start of knowing how to drive. A drive of a mile and a half shouldn't be a big deal.

Let Mitch Taylor teach you: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... O72Ul4erSX

[LittleTimmy52]

I wish you lived near me. We could work on how to drive, and how to not feel like you're driving on egg shells. Let me narrow down the scope of this discussion. Are you a good Model T driver? By that I mean, do you know what to do enough to feel confident? Let's go back to the start of knowing how to drive. A drive of a mile and a half shouldn't be a big deal.

Let Mitch Taylor teach you: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... O72Ul4erSX

I mean I felt confident enough to go to my friend's house, 4 miles each way and it was on faster busier roads, I know not to squeeze juice out of the engine going fast (I was just under 30mph basically the whole time) I had the carb on the right mixture (I think) my spark was not retarded or advanced too much (not rough and no detonation). But after it shutting off 3 or 4 times (on that trip) then later blowing a freeze plug out made me less confident.

Either something is wrong that I'm not describing properly or I am doing something wrong. I'm trying to find someone near where I live, but most of the enthusiasts live far north of me.

But I will be driving it more often as it currently doesn't have anything screaming at me that it's broken. But the far trips might have to wait until I feel better about my and it's abilities to go farther

[LittleTimmy52]

A model T clutch does not completely disengage the transmission like a modern manual transmission.

Its a planetary system, "neutral" is a lack of hold feature in such a system. The output & brake drum is still spinning on the center shaft also engaging & spinning the triple gears. Thats 6 bushings spinning plus the 4th main & clutch disk faces. All done without benefit of ANY splash oil from a revolving flywheel. Triple gear bushings are most @ risk running dry first. That can seize the pins to the bushings.

Its risky to tow in neutral. As stated, removing the plugs & pulling in gear is safer. Loading onto a flat bed is best.

In high gear or low gear?, couldn't I also disengage the rear somehow so it doesn't spin the transmission? I do really need a flatbed but I can hardly afford my T, let alone a trailer.

[speedytinc]

Direct. Hi speed.
Sure, you could remove the drive shaft or disconnect @ the front & remove the U-Joint. Sound practical?
As advised, you could tow with the 4 spark plugs removed in hi gear.

[LittleTimmy52]

Noted, thanks. I now need to keep a rope and a wrench that can fit the plugs on me. I do not think im going to break down too soon though, since im still fixing things and it gets better by the day.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

Noted, thanks. I now need to keep a rope and a wrench that can fit the plugs on me. I do not think im going to break down too soon though, since im still fixing things and it gets better by the day.

If you use a tow rope, do not tie it to the center of the axle. Tie it to the spring or to the area between the spring perch and the end of the axle. Towing from the center of the axle can bend it.

[Steve Jelf]

I now need to keep a rope and a wrench that can fit the plugs on me

Have you joined a local Model T club? I bet there are members who would let you have a #2335 wrench or a #1349, or other common T tools cheap or for free.

[J1MGOLDEN]

That drawing on how to bend the gas line is confusing to a lot of people.

There is no mention as to which end goes in the sweet potato.

I have always thought it should come straight forward, then bend over in front of the exhaust pipe.

For most year Ts that works fine for me, and you have to cut off about three inches up front.

[Allan]

Why remove the plugs? if towing on a rope, in high gear, leaving the plugs in will help braking because you will still have engine compression. Just close the throttle down.

Allan from down under

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

Why remove the plugs? if towing on a rope, in high gear, leaving the plugs in will help braking because you will still have engine compression. Just close the throttle down.

Allan from down under

I've tried towing with plugs in. It was hard to get the high speed clutch to grab. If I off started with the clutch already engaged, it dragged the rear wheels.