Sorting out the Clutch

Discuss all things Model T related.
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules
User avatar

Topic author
varmint
Posts: 838
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:02 pm
First Name: Vernon
Last Name: Worley
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: October 26, 1926 Coupe
Location: New Orleans, LA
Contact:

Sorting out the Clutch

Post by varmint » Sat Feb 15, 2025 4:41 pm

First of all, thanks vendors and part makers. I have a replacement linkage kit between the low band and the clutch shaft. Before I install it, I found play in the clutch pedal and need to know if this is normal. Here, there is no additional load on the low band spring from the clutch pedal being moved forward.
clutch pedal 01-02.jpg
Vern (Vieux Carre)


Allan
Posts: 6609
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:21 pm
First Name: Allan
Last Name: Bennett
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1912 van, 1917 shooting brake, 1929 roadster buckboard, 1924 tourer, 1925 barn find buckboard, 1925 D &F wide body roadster, 1927LHD Tudor sedan.
Location: Gawler, Australia

Re: Sorting out the Clutch

Post by Allan » Sat Feb 15, 2025 10:11 pm

Vernon, your brake pedal has no play before it begins to ramp up on the ramp. The clutch pedal is different. There should be about 1.5" of pedal travel before the pedal starts to ramp up. This 1.5"' free play is what gives you the ability to neutral with your foot without having to pull the handbrake lever back to disengage the clutch.
Before i knew better, I once rebuilt the clutch pedal ramps to take out the wear/play. Only did it once!

Allan from down under

User avatar

Topic author
varmint
Posts: 838
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:02 pm
First Name: Vernon
Last Name: Worley
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: October 26, 1926 Coupe
Location: New Orleans, LA
Contact:

Re: Sorting out the Clutch

Post by varmint » Mon Feb 17, 2025 8:55 pm

Thanks for sharing your mistake. I could do the same. Even though it has 2-1/2" of travel instead of the 1-1/2", I will leave it alone for now and just assemble the linkage...or so I think.
After turning "the slow-speed adjusting screw, so that the slow-speed band will be fully engaged a couple inches before the pedal reaches the floor boards", I connected the "slow speed connection rod". The cotter pin barely fit in and the linkage was binding against the Bendix cover, while the clevis did not line up with the "clutch control shaft". Basically, I can hardly install the parts, let alone ensure movement.

Is the slow speed shaft jutting out too much to the left? (When fully pressed, there still is about 1/4" shaft exposed.)
Is the slow speed connection rod malformed?

clutch pedal 03.jpg
clutch pedal 04.jpg
clutch pedal 05.jpg
clutch pedal 06.jpg
Vern (Vieux Carre)

User avatar

RajoRacer
Posts: 5171
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:18 pm
First Name: Steve
Last Name: Tomaso
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 Touring, 1919 Centerdoor, 1924 TT C-Cab Express, 1925 Racer
Location: Longbranch, WA
Board Member Since: 2001

Re: Sorting out the Clutch

Post by RajoRacer » Mon Feb 17, 2025 9:39 pm

You might be installing that slo-speed linkage backwards - I'll go check the "Bible".

User avatar

Harley_97
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:43 pm
First Name: Roger
Last Name: Hallett
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1924 Runabout, 1917 Runabout
Location: Beloit, Wis.
Board Member Since: 2019

Re: Sorting out the Clutch

Post by Harley_97 » Mon Feb 17, 2025 10:21 pm

Here is the proper procedure.
Attachments
20250217_211744.jpg

User avatar

JTT3
Posts: 1855
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:57 am
First Name: John
Last Name: Tannehill
Location: Hot Coffee, MS

Re: Sorting out the Clutch

Post by JTT3 » Mon Feb 17, 2025 10:32 pm

Vernon, the new Low speed linkage’s shaped does not have the same length past the radius bend for you to have a lose fit for movement & will bind. You do have it placed correctly with the radius towards the bendix cover. You may need to bend the tang on the pedal a bit inward for more clearance but again past the radius seems to short compared to the original piece. I’d encourage you to pull the low pedal all the way back toward the seat when adjusting your low speed linkage.
Best John
Last edited by JTT3 on Mon Feb 17, 2025 10:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar

Topic author
varmint
Posts: 838
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:02 pm
First Name: Vernon
Last Name: Worley
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: October 26, 1926 Coupe
Location: New Orleans, LA
Contact:

Re: Sorting out the Clutch

Post by varmint » Mon Feb 17, 2025 10:33 pm

Not backwards...I thought about that too.
Yes, John, the bracket does also bind and does not want to turn down much at all.
clutch linkage b.jpg
clutch linkage b.jpg (17.22 KiB) Viewed 1441 times
Vern (Vieux Carre)

User avatar

Harley_97
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:43 pm
First Name: Roger
Last Name: Hallett
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1924 Runabout, 1917 Runabout
Location: Beloit, Wis.
Board Member Since: 2019

Re: Sorting out the Clutch

Post by Harley_97 » Mon Feb 17, 2025 11:34 pm

Vernon, your linkage is binding on the inside radius, I have taken a file to that area and removed enough material to free things up.
That will give the linkage move lateral movement, perhaps just enough to clear the Bendix cover.
Roger
Attachments
clutch pedal 06.jpg
clutch pedal 06.jpg (57.87 KiB) Viewed 1426 times

User avatar

Topic author
varmint
Posts: 838
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:02 pm
First Name: Vernon
Last Name: Worley
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: October 26, 1926 Coupe
Location: New Orleans, LA
Contact:

Re: Sorting out the Clutch

Post by varmint » Tue Feb 18, 2025 7:23 am

After sleeping on this and waking at 4am thinking about a possible solution, I could see that the tab on the low shaft would have to bent twice to keep the hole perpendicular with the linkage. However, though it will move the hole to the right, it will also shorten the radius and the amount of throw, when the pedal is pressed. The blue arrow points to a shallower angle which is slightly less rigid. So, this process is just fixing a problem that is wrong elsewhere and does not solve the binding with "the slow speed connecting rod".

"The slow speed connecting rod"'s smooth shank above the threads is not straight either, nor is the inside radius sharp enough. 1) Material can be removed from both sides of the rod and if needed, material welded to the opposite side or 2) perhaps the rod could be bent correctly or 3) start over and make one from a straight rod, cutting two 45s and welding the two pieces together for a sharp 90.

Nobody has mentioned the slow speed shaft. I guess either no one knows or it's OK.
clutch pedal 07.jpg
clutch pedal 07.jpg (20.67 KiB) Viewed 1385 times
clutch pedal 08b.jpg
Vern (Vieux Carre)


Allan
Posts: 6609
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:21 pm
First Name: Allan
Last Name: Bennett
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1912 van, 1917 shooting brake, 1929 roadster buckboard, 1924 tourer, 1925 barn find buckboard, 1925 D &F wide body roadster, 1927LHD Tudor sedan.
Location: Gawler, Australia

Re: Sorting out the Clutch

Post by Allan » Tue Feb 18, 2025 5:37 pm

There needs to be a bit of slop in this connection, so seeking a close fit each end is counter intuitive. Because the clutch pedal has to travel sideways when used, having too close a fit between the pedal hole and the bent linkage part will cause binding as the pedal tries to drag the whole linkage assembly sideways. The best solution to this that I have seen was a ball joint rather than the bent L shaped piece. Neat but way too expensive for Henry.

Allan from down under.

User avatar

Topic author
varmint
Posts: 838
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:02 pm
First Name: Vernon
Last Name: Worley
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: October 26, 1926 Coupe
Location: New Orleans, LA
Contact:

Re: Sorting out the Clutch

Post by varmint » Mon Feb 24, 2025 10:06 pm

clutch pedal 09.jpg
clutch pedal 09.jpg (14.83 KiB) Viewed 1112 times
The part was not made quite right and I out of frustration did not bother to anneal the metal before attempting to bend it back. Yes, it broke. In locating a fine thread screw, none of them had threads long enough (1-1/4"). I couldn't even find a full thread at three different hardware stores. The hex head did not matter (could have been a button cap) because I cut it off.

clutch pedal 10.jpg
clutch pedal 10.jpg (21.03 KiB) Viewed 1112 times
This is a go at adding another 1/4" of UNF threads but the die wore out on this job. Other photos will show the same condition.

clutch pedal 11.jpg
clutch pedal 11.jpg (15.86 KiB) Viewed 1112 times
I got about 1/8". So, came up with another plan to center the clevis on the threads at the proper length.

clutch pedal 12.jpg
clutch pedal 12.jpg (22.58 KiB) Viewed 1112 times
The ruler is just there for the camera shot but the on-center measurement is 3-3/16" (with the pedal pulled back) but it should be 1/16" short according to instructions. The clevis was turned to the middle of the threads of the screw.

clutch pedal 13.jpg
clutch pedal 13.jpg (18.75 KiB) Viewed 1112 times
Then the bolt was measured and marked at 3-1/8" for the center of two 45º cuts. I should have subtracted half of 5/16" from that. I then torched and bent the bolt for a sharp 90º, cut a wedge and welded the angle in place. After grinding, I cut the hex head, and drilled the cotter pin hole.
Vern (Vieux Carre)

User avatar

Topic author
varmint
Posts: 838
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:02 pm
First Name: Vernon
Last Name: Worley
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: October 26, 1926 Coupe
Location: New Orleans, LA
Contact:

Re: Sorting out the Clutch

Post by varmint » Mon Feb 24, 2025 10:20 pm

clutch pedal 14.jpg
clutch pedal 14.jpg (18.86 KiB) Viewed 1111 times
A 5/16" long bolt makes it easy to hold the clevis in place when tightening the set nut.

clutch pedal 15.jpg
clutch pedal 15.jpg (30.17 KiB) Viewed 1111 times
The bent side is much longer to allow for the bolt to slide through the pedal's counterpart as the pedal walks to the right when engaged. Hopefully, this will minimize binding.

clutch pedal 16.jpg
It is so long, however, that I had to remove the Bendix cover for installation room. The bolt does not contact anything to the right, throughout its movement. The washer is just because reasons.

clutch pedal 17.jpg
clutch pedal 17.jpg (49.37 KiB) Viewed 1111 times
The Bendix cover is then reinstalled before attaching the linkage to the clutch shaft.

clutch pedal 18.jpg
clutch pedal 18.jpg (42.6 KiB) Viewed 1111 times
It works. All the gears work as tested on jack stands. Yesterday we drove the car. Tonight I tightened the bands some more and she stopped with her own brakes.
Vern (Vieux Carre)

User avatar

George House
Posts: 2814
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:25 pm
First Name: George
Last Name: House
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: ‘10 Maxwell AA, ‘11Hupp Model 20, Two 1914 Ford runabouts, 19 centerdoor, 25 C Cab,26 roadster
Location: Northern Caldwell County TX
MTFCA Life Member: YES
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: Sorting out the Clutch

Post by George House » Tue Feb 25, 2025 7:41 pm

Excellent tutorial Vern ! Good pictures too ! You’re quite the problem solver. :D
A Fine is a Tax for Doing Something Wrong….A Tax is a Fine for Doing Something RIGHT 🤔


Allan
Posts: 6609
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:21 pm
First Name: Allan
Last Name: Bennett
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1912 van, 1917 shooting brake, 1929 roadster buckboard, 1924 tourer, 1925 barn find buckboard, 1925 D &F wide body roadster, 1927LHD Tudor sedan.
Location: Gawler, Australia

Re: Sorting out the Clutch

Post by Allan » Tue Feb 25, 2025 10:20 pm

The same problem with a none-to-sharp bend can occur in carburetor linkages, especially with the thick brass levers on the throttle plate shaft. I have found brazing a washer to the back side of the bend up against the shaft of the rod keeps the rod straight in the arm and takes out the inside radius of the bend.

Allan from down under.

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic