14 Help Please, Radiator/Fenders don't align

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Ben Umberger
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14 Help Please, Radiator/Fenders don't align

Post by Ben Umberger » Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:46 pm

Gents I need some input please. I have a 14, the engine was pulled and now I'm putting things back together. I can't get the radiator to set down on the frame it sits on the fender by about 3/16 of an inch. It seems that the fender is just further forward than before but I'm puzzled why and don't know what to do about it.

Should the hood shelf be a full inch behind the radiator? Also interesting that the radiator inlet now conflicts with the timing linkage which will only get worse when the radiator comes down to the frame. I did adjust the length of the rod as a part of timing (new timer) so maybe the shape of the rod now is the issue and maybe has nothing to do with my radiator problem.

Looking for advice

Thanks Ben Umberger
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Allan
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Re: 14 Help Please, Radiator/Fenders don't align

Post by Allan » Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:41 am

Ben, on my 1912 van that foot on the radiator is over the side of the frame rail. Your looks like it sits on top. This may indicate that your front cross member has been spread somewhat. The lean on the stud also supports this observation. If things do not sit correctly, it is difficult to get things to line up. There is usually little gap between the foot of the radiator and the hood shelf.

Allan from down under.


Wayne Sheldon
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Re: 14 Help Please, Radiator/Fenders don't align

Post by Wayne Sheldon » Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:52 am

I suspect Allan may be correct. He is pretty sharp and usually right about things. I also suspect that your fender needs to slide back about a quarter of an inch. Hopefully, just loosen some bolts and slip it a bit. Many fenders had enough slop in the mounting holes to allow that. And some? Reproduction fenders sometimes get holes drilled by installers and off a bit from where they belong. Just a thought.


Topic author
Ben Umberger
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Re: 14 Help Please, Radiator/Fenders don't align

Post by Ben Umberger » Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:41 am

Gents,

The radiator will clear the sides of the frame, its just that it is sitting on the front most part of the fender (where it rests on the frame).

I marked on the frame where the front most part of the fender was then removed the radiator and hood shelves. The fender would push back adequately but would totally pass the existing holes in the frame. (there are no extra holes) I'm missing something, it should all line up with the existing holes.

let me say that it had splash pans before, I haven't put them back but that should not be an issue.


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Ben Umberger
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Re: 14 Help Please, Radiator/Fenders don't align

Post by Ben Umberger » Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:52 am

How much gap should there be between the hood shelf and the radiator brass? anybody have pictures of these details?

Thanks

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Corey Walker
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Re: 14 Help Please, Radiator/Fenders don't align

Post by Corey Walker » Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:06 pm

Here is how mine is.
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Corey Walker, Brownsboro, Texas

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Corey Walker
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Re: 14 Help Please, Radiator/Fenders don't align

Post by Corey Walker » Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:14 pm

Here’s an early frame I have and the holes for the bolt and hood hook are 5 1/2” then 6 3/4” from the front.
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Corey Walker, Brownsboro, Texas


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Ben Umberger
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Re: 14 Help Please, Radiator/Fenders don't align

Post by Ben Umberger » Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:37 pm

Corey,

That helps, my frame holes match your measurement. Note My hood shelf is 3/4" behind the radiator, that must be a clue.

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George Mills
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Re: 14 Help Please, Radiator/Fenders don't align

Post by George Mills » Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:33 pm

Ben,

I don’t have a 14, but do have a 15 at the house here up north. I went out and looked....

I do have the 19 there in Anona Largo and while it is a black era...the radiator on that sits on hard pads like the brass and not thimbles. The house is a smart house so if you want to run over and take a look see at the ‘19 give a shout-out I can open the garage door from up north.

Here are the ‘15 photos,,the hood shelf sits higher than the radiator horn...

Sorry for the pic orientation...iPhone thingy
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Mark Gregush
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Re: 14 Help Please, Radiator/Fenders don't align

Post by Mark Gregush » Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:20 am

Besides the front cross member being bent out some, maybe the hood shelf's are too short. Compare the photo below yours, they look a bit longer, front to first hood hook, then yours.
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/17 ... 1300309191
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

1921 Huckster
1925 Cut down pickup


Topic author
Ben Umberger
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Re: 14 Help Please, Radiator/Fenders don't align

Post by Ben Umberger » Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:50 pm

Well folks, here is the story. After much study it seems certain that the car wasn't right when I pulled the engine . When I got the car home (newly purchased) I changed the oil, drove around the block 1 time and then dumped the catch pan into a jug for disposal. Something went plop so I got out a strainer, and found a brass countersunk screw head (you know what that means) so I never started it again and pulled the engine. I never noticed at the time but it is clear now from the ware marks that the radiator always sat on top of the fender and just wasn't right.

I don't know exactly what I will do in the long term but for now it's going back to as I received it ( not as bad as the pictures but not at all right) so I can drive it in the Independence Day Parade. I can't be sure if the fenders were repops, maybe the radiator was not original. The car had been restored 30 years ago, there is not a way I can learn these kind of details.

I can park it next to another 14 and compare.

To continue the brass screw story, I quickly realized that I use the same catch pan on my 20 and couldn't swear which car it came from. I spent a long time looking for a way to see the magnet screws without removing the hogs head. (if there is a way please let me know for next time).

Any way the story will continue but for now thanks very much for the thoughts and pictures

When it is all buttoned up I'll post some pictures.

Ben Umberger

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Mark Gregush
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Re: 14 Help Please, Radiator/Fenders don't align

Post by Mark Gregush » Wed Jun 26, 2019 12:58 am

Start by taking the radiator off, if it is not, check the center to center mounting holes, the info how far apart is in the link I posted. By the way, do you have the pads under the ears?
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

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Re: 14 Help Please, Radiator/Fenders don't align

Post by Allan » Wed Jun 26, 2019 7:59 am

Mark, one of the photos shows some thick insertion rubber under the radiator support. I use the same stuff. It holds its thickness better than leather.

Allan from down under.


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Re: 14 Help Please, Radiator/Fenders don't align

Post by Dollisdad » Wed Jun 26, 2019 7:32 pm

My guess on what’s going on. My guess is they are reproduction fenders. They did not realize that the rear of the flange on the skirt (the area that lays on top of the frame), should be cut away to clear the frame to firewall brackets and allow the fender to move back to allow the fender skirt to clear the radiator. The point on the skin of the fender should be close to being in line with the face of the firewall. All this tells me the fender needs to go back.The radiator mounting stud appears to be leaning forward, which makes me think the radiator needs to move back slightly as well. The frame should be 23” outside to outside front to back. Measure the inside of the radiator when you have it off and to see that it will fit. I have used a 30” wood working draw clamp to close up the front frame spread. You may have to use some heat on the front cross member if it needs to move a lot. Don’t worry about the holes being in the wrong place. You can drill new holes and no matter where they wind up it should all mount up correctly. At worst you need to replace the hood sills, but I think they will be useable also. I have done this job before a couple times. Straightening out a incorrectly assembled front end is fairly straightforward. Start at the radiator and work back. Good luck.

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