A Model T era secret

[Steve Jelf]

In the Model T Ford Club of Facebook somebody asked how to keep the exhaust pack nut from backing off. There were the usual suggestions, including clamps for the purpose sold by Lang's and Snyder's. That made me curious, and I looked into the 8-5-28 parts book everybody has. It shows no such clamp. Why didn't Ford provide that product back in the T era?

[speedytinc]

Parts fit together. Today most are using worn out exh manifolds & worn nuts.
A new manifold & nut wont shake loose Tightened with the ford wrench.

[Colin Mavins]

On my 1912 The exhaust nut would always work loose over the course of the driving season until I was told to get the ford exhaust nut wrench, that was 3 years ago and the nut is still tight . I don't know why but it works.

[John kuehn]

Langs sells the exhaust nut clamp for around $8.00
They have been selling them for a good while.

[John Codman]

Parts fit together. Today most are using worn out exh manifolds & worn nuts.
A new manifold & nut wont shake loose Tightened with the ford wrench.

I have found that the above is true. I haven't touched mine in at least 10 years.

[ModelTWoods]

Langs sells the exhaust nut clamp for around $8.00
They have been selling them for a good while.

Steve Jelf, mentioned the Lang's exhaust nut clamp in the original post. I wasn't born until 21 years after the last T came off the line, but it is conceivable that a T owner with a nut that "was driving him, nuts", could have got a 1 1/2" pinch clamp from wherever he bought his auto supplies and placed it directly behind the loose nut I say "pinch clamp" because i figure the screw type clamp, became available at a later date, but not sure of date.

[love2T's]

Maybe I'm just lucky but I've yet to have a problem with the nut.

[RajoRacer]

That is an "era" accessory clamp - musta had some problems back then also !

[NHUSA]

On my 1912 The exhaust nut would always work loose over the course of the driving season until I was told to get the ford exhaust nut wrench, that was 3 years ago and the nut is still tight . I don't know why but it works.

It’s a magic wrench… just saying

[Norman Kling]

I make my own out of a tin can. I cut a strip about half inch wide and one and one half inch long and bend an offset so that one end fits a flat surface of the nut and the other end is flat on the side of the pipe. Then place a hose clamp snug under the nut against the tin. The clamp will keep the the nut from sliding down the pipe and the offset will keep it from turning. Works very well unless the threads are so old and worn the nut cannot be tightened.
Norm

[TRDxB2]

In the Model T Ford Club of Facebook somebody asked how to keep the exhaust pack nut from backing off. There were the usual suggestions, including clamps for the purpose sold by Lang's and Snyder's. That made me curious, and I looked into the 8-5-28 parts book everybody has. It shows no such clamp. Why didn't Ford provide that product back in the T era?

Was an accessory just like the new ones. To easy to DIY

[Steve Jelf]

I've been waiting to see if anybody else's story matches mine. Apparently not, so I'll spill the beans. Years ago I heard that you should tighten the nut hot. I don't recall ever having one work loose since I started doing that. I use the proper Ford wrench, but I attribute the nut's stability to removing and tightening it hot. Anybody else?

[speedytinc]

I rarely tighten when hot unless a nut gets loose on a fellow driver during a tour.
I do, however, use permatex silver anti seize & tighten as much as possible in the shop.
I think the anti-seize acts as a lubricant to allow a bit more turn over dry.

[Rich Bingham]

It’s been my experience that very few reproduction exhaust pipes are made to the original profile. Mating the flange to the manifold is often difficult or impossible, and I believe stress and / or gaps at that joint are the main cause of the nut backing off, if both manifold and pack nit are sound. I can see how cinching up hot could improve the fit.

[Norman Kling]

Sometimes the repro pipes are bent correctly, however, the engines will tend to sag on the righside because both the torque of the engine and the action of the transmission push the block in that direction. So in that case the pipe bend does not fit.
Norm

[TRDxB2]

I've been waiting to see if anybody else's story matches mine. Apparently not, so I'll spill the beans. Years ago I heard that you should tighten the nut hot. I don't recall ever having one work loose since I started doing that. I use the proper Ford wrench, but I attribute the nut's stability to removing and tightening it hot. Anybody else?

It does make sense since brass expands more than cast iron when heated, has a higher coefficient of thermal expansion. So it might get up one more thread or two. On the other hand it may eventually seize because of the dissimilar metals.

[John kuehn]

Tightening the nut when hot is the right thing to do makes sense. Did Ford ever have any thing about this in the service bulletins? Or was it something that was “ just understood “ to do?
If the clamp is mentioned way back when it stands to reason the accessory folks knew about it.

[Original Smith]

I've never had a problem with the pack nut getting loose. It's probably because the owner has no idea how to properly tighten the pack nut. All you need is the pack nut wrench, and while tightening the nut rotate the exhaust pipe to seat it on the manifold.

[J1MGOLDEN]

A few years ago, I was helping a friend replace the exhaust pipe and muffler on a TT Truck.

The nut could not be loosened with the original wrench made for that purpose.

We had an audience, so my friend warmed the nut with his torch.

I explained to the crowd that a strong pull on the wrench was better than beating on it with a hammer.

While my friend put the torch away, I gave an example of my opinion and gave a good pull.

The exhaust pipe came loose, along with the nut and about two inches of the exhaust manifold.

We never could determine how a nut could be installed that tight.

My friend assured me that if I had left it alone, he could have warmed it more, so it would have come loose, and saved the manifold.

[George Mills]

I'll second, third and fourth Steve Jelf suggestion.

Back in the 70's I was taught that you hang the tailpipe by a string at the back, you tighten the nut by hand while you wiggle and jiggle the bent area of the pipe to lay right and proper. then you use the wrench to seat it. (I started with a pipe wrench I picked up for a buck..then graduated into the real T wrench somewhere along the line).

Then, you go for a ride and when you bring her home, you immediately take the wrench and try to get another 1/8 of a turn out of it! It always moves, and in all this time across more than a few cars have never had one come loose on me yet.

(BTW...As a matter of habit, I also pre-seat the nut on the manifold pipe if either is new...1/4 turn on...1/8th turn off...walk it up. The newer nuts and the newer manifolds are apparently made to have a bit of an interference fit...THAT...may trick you into thinking you have seated it good...and when all done it still has blow-by)

[Allan]

The exhaust pipe must be a good fit before the nut is run up. Many things contribute to this not being the case. Most original manifolds are warped to some extent. New reproduction exhaust pipes are a mixed bag. Some mufflers are non standard. Muffler mountings vary on some cars. Frames may be bent/sagging. All of these add up to make a full mating of the flange at the manifold a rare occurrence. If the nut is used to force the flange against the manifold the joint is under tension, some of which is relieved in subsequent heat cycles. Repeated re-tightening of the nut may eventually have the two components seated properly.

If attention is paid to making the flange mate squarely on the manifold when fitting the pipe, the nut can then do its job as designed. I always use copper/graphite high temperature lubricant on the nut. It allows easier tightening and facilitates easy removal when required. In 70 years of T ownership I have had one nut come loose on a tour, on a newly restored car. By the time the tour was over it never came loose again.

Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.

[Rod Petrie]

When I started restoring my 26 TT I got from my grandpa, there was a hole drilled through the nut and manifold and a nail was stuck in there.