Center door / metal firewall question

[Modeltmike]

Helping someone identify the year on a center door. The engine is a ‘22, but it has a metal firewall. It is my understanding the metal firewall didn’t come along until mid ‘23. I assume a 22 center door would have a wood firewall? Is it possible that someone rebuilding this years ago put a metal one where there was wood, or is this likely a ‘23? What other differences between a ‘22 and ‘23 sedan? Thanks

[Russ T Fender]

I may be wrong but I thought ‘22 was the last fulll year for the Centerdoor so your car may be one built in ‘23 with leftover parts and a metal firewall. My late 22 Centerdoor still has a wood firewall.

[Allan]

Were there ever low radiator steel firewalls? I have never seen one on our Canadian sourced cars. If US production is the same, your car should have a high radiator if it has a steel firewall.

Allan from down under.

[big2bird]

Were there ever low radiator steel firewalls?

Early 23 touring. Low hood, steel firewall.

[speedytinc]

Were there ever low radiator steel firewalls? I have never seen one on our Canadian sourced cars. If US production is the same, your car should have a high radiator if it has a steel firewall.

Allan from down under.

Yes . 23. @ this time & after, the replacement fire walls were steel available in low & hi versions.

[Modeltmike]

Thanks for the info. I have a mid year 23 roadster that is metal firewall and low radiator. I had a 23 touring the same way.

Sounds like a wood firewall can be replaced with a low metal firewall?

McCally mentions 23 center door. Built until summer. Any differences between 22/23 ?

Thanks

[Will_Vanderburg]

My 22 Centerdoor has a wooden firewall and my friend’s 23 Centerdoor has a metal firewall. The 23 metal firewall came out around March/April of 23.

Centerdoors were made until at least June or July of 23.

As far as I have observed, other than the possibility of a metal firewall, there is no difference between a 22 and 23 Centerdoor.

[Steve Jelf]

This is from memory, so you may want to refer to the encyclopedia and check the details. For a couple of months early in 1923 both wood and steel firewalls were used. After the steel version was introduced, it became the standard replacement sold for cars earlier than 1923. If you had a 1921 that needed a new firewall, they would sell you a steel one.

[Mark Gregush]

The frame to firewall mounts are different between the wood a steel. If you are replacing the wood with steel, you need to add spacers between the mounts and firewall. The outer radiator mounting caps were used or spacers about that thickness. If you are going back to wood, you will need to find the earlier style pressed steel ones to make it work.

[Allan]

Mark, your post reminded me of difficulties i had when building my 1917 shooting brake. To get a decent fit for the hood I had to resort to a 1/4" spacer behind one of the frame brackets to space that side of the firewall back. Onr does what is needed.

Allan from down under.

[John kuehn]

As Steve mentioned it could be possible that the wood firewall was replaced sometime in the early 20’s and even later. If you had a low cowl wood firewall a dealer might have had a steel one or even went to a salvage yard to put one in your car. In the low cowl transition years it probably happed more than we think. If parts would work and fit owners would use them even if the owners had to put them in.

[Wayne Sheldon]

Many years ago, the prevailing wisdom (wrong!) was that Ford factory started using steel firewalls much earlier on many cars. This was due to so many late 1910s and early 1920s surviving Ts had steel firewalls. I even saw a 1915/'16 with a steel firewall. They must have had fun cutting the drain channel off the top of the firewall to get the brass era hood former to slide onto it?
So apparently a lot of wooden firewalls were changed to steel ones after the steel ones became available.

Another thing. Here in California, I have not seen nearly as much real factory NOS model T parts as people in the East and Midwest seem to find. One of the few real factory NOS parts that I have, is a steel firewall that close examination says has never been bolted into a car. And mine is not the only one. I have seen literally dozens of them at swap meets over the years! An awful lot of the things must have been shipped to ford dealers in anticipation of replacing wooden firewalls in 1910s/'20s model Ts for so many of the things to still be around.

As much reading of the forums and discussions of changeover timelines that I have done? My belief is that factory installed steel low firewalls should be only late calendar 1922, 1923 model cars. Even at that, a lot of the early 1923 model cars continued to get wooden firewalls through the first half of the model year. It is pretty well accepted that even the factory had to use some sort of spacer to fit the steel firewall onto the brackets meant for a wooden firewall. The firewall to chassis spacing is the same for the steel and wooden firewalls on the back side! However, since the steel firewall is much thinner than the wooden firewall and that the brackets to the frame attach to the front of the firewall, the front spacing is not the same, and the thinner steel firewall requires some type of a spacer to work with the earlier type frame brackets.
I am sure quite a few things were used as spacers, even at the factory. Dealers and local shops and even owners probably used a lot more odd bits. I have personally seen nicely cut pieces of wood, crude scraps of wood, stacks of flat washers, assorted larger nuts, and the aforementioned radiator spring mount cap. I can only imagine what other bits may have been used over the years.

I am not sure exactly when factory production of center-door sedans ended? I know that many c-d sedans sold as 1923 models were in fact leftover 1922 built cars. The style in even 1922 was considered old fashioned. In the mid to late 1910s, most major automakers offered something similar in style, either sedan or coupe. The style itself was a carryover from horse drawn carriage days. However, by 1920, most automakers were dropping the style in favor of something more practical. Ford was a good couple years behind the times when they dropped the c-d sedan. Center-door sedans and some carriage influenced coupes were awkward to get in or out of, and lacked luggage carrying space. Of course, today, that is why we like them so much.