New Radiator- Shell not fitting right....

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mwarren
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New Radiator- Shell not fitting right....

Post by mwarren » Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:43 pm

I just bought a brand new radiator from Berg's. It was delivered today! It looks really nice. You can tell the quality is very high. There was an issue with the supplier who was making the necks for the radiator but Gery was able to finally get them made. I knew it was going to be a bit of an extra wait but I didn't mind since the weather hasn't been the greatest in the Northeast anyway....

Here is my question. I measured my old radiator several times. I was VERY confident that I had the low radiator based on the measurement of the core, the measurement of the hood and the measurement of the firewall. When I went to install the radiator tonight, the shell isn't fitting all the way down on the neck. I can't really remember how my old one fit....The problem is I threw it out because it actually blew a huge hole in it on my last ride as it was literally falling apart. I never thought I would have needed it. The shell fits about 1/2 inch above the top of the radiator. since it doesn't sit on the wide, lower part of the neck, the shell is able to move back and forth a bit in the opening. Do you guys have any thoughts on this? I still think my car is supposed to have a low radiator. I think the high one wouldn't fit right either based on the measurements. Is the shell supposed to fit right down tight to the top of the radiator?
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mwarren
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Re: New Radiator- Shell not fitting right....

Post by mwarren » Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:46 pm

BTW, I will probably call Gery tomorrow to get his thoughts but since I just came in from the garage and am scratching my head, I thought I'd see if you guys have any ideas. I'm super happy with the radiator and I don't think it's a manufacturing issue. My guess is the shroud is just a bit off...


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Re: New Radiator- Shell not fitting right....

Post by sweet23 » Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:53 pm

Did you tighten the lower mounting hardware to the frame ? And are you using the correct hardware ? With 1.5" difference between a low, and high radiator, I don't think that is the issue.


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mwarren
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Re: New Radiator- Shell not fitting right....

Post by mwarren » Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:22 pm

In the photos I posted, I have the radiator off the car, and the shell over the top. The tabs on the shell are resting on the tabs on the radiator with no space between them. The shell can't get any closer.

I double checked the hardware I was using against a parts diagram I found online. It appears to all be correct.

Mike


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Re: New Radiator- Shell not fitting right....

Post by Adam » Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:57 am

Does the bottom front of the top tank of the radiator show below the shroud? If so you have a high shroud and low radiator

How does your hood fit the new shroud? If it fits well you have the correct shroud. If it fits terrible, then you have the wrong shroud.


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Re: New Radiator- Shell not fitting right....

Post by sweet23 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:19 pm

There are two 1/4" screws on each side to secure the shell to to radiator. Do they line up ?


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Re: New Radiator- Shell not fitting right....

Post by John kuehn » Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:38 pm

You didn’t mention the year your T is. If it’s a 22 or older it takes a low cowl, low radiator car. If it’s newer it’s a high radiator car. Also is your new radiator shell a reproduction or an original. As mentioned you may have the correct radiator shell but a low radiator or vice versa.


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Re: New Radiator- Shell not fitting right....

Post by Altair » Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:27 pm

If your careful you can cut the bottom of the shroud with snips, re-bend and re-drill new holes to fit, I have done this and when finished you can't tell.


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Re: New Radiator- Shell not fitting right....

Post by Mark Osterman » Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:28 pm

The very same thing happened to me with their low radiator. I sent it back and they sent me another that was correct though in shipment it was dropped and the intake section where the rod connects was pulled to the point where the rivet holes leaked. They paid for a local shop to resolder the area. It’s just a little wonky looking at the repair site but doesn’t leak and I love the radiator.

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Re: New Radiator- Shell not fitting right....

Post by George N Lake Ozark » Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:01 pm

When I was putting on my Rad. I was using new mounting hardware and springs. Turns out the the springs I was supplied were too stiff and long. So I cleaned and reused the old springs .
Well,I had a pic for comparison but it's not working :roll:

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Re: New Radiator- Shell not fitting right....

Post by Oldav8tor » Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:22 pm

This thread gave me a start! Back in October I ordered a new low black radiator from Bergs which a friend picked up at Hershey. I haven't gotten around to installing it yet as I had a little setback over the winter (broke my leg) that has delayed progress.

After reading this thread I hobbled out to the barn and pulled the radiator out of it's box and slipped my radiator shroud over it....perfect fit! Whew! One less problem to deal with ;)

Mike, I hope you resolve your fit issue satisfactorily.
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Re: New Radiator- Shell not fitting right....

Post by George Mills » Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:45 pm

My short term memory kind of does a clear-disk function since my accident but I'll add that I had a similar problem with a new Bergs a while back...

But it wasn't a problem!

I slid the shell down and it just refused to seat, holding proud pretty much like your picture. I looked at the neck and shroud hole clearance or lack thereof and decided it should seat, or was close enough that it should pass with a bit of a hand thump...

That didn't work!

On further look-see I found (and this is where the recollection gets gray) that 'something' on the shell had hung up on the tiny lip of the upper tank corner supports. I little pry here, a little pry there, and it dropped down into place....sweet!

I'm sorry that I don't remember exactly what it was, maybe something to do with cowl lacing, maybe something stamped in the shell like where a screw goes? I just don't recall....but I do know that spreading to go around that and a hand bump let it all seat...

Worth a looks and try


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Re: New Radiator- Shell not fitting right....

Post by Allan » Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:40 am

A low radiator shell has sides parallel to each other and square to the front. It does not have the screws either side at the top to fasten it to stand-offs on the side panels.

High radiator shell sides that are flared to follow the tapered sides on the hood. They do have the side screws. A high shell can be cut down to the low height, but the flare means the hood will never fit as it should.

If this shell is sitting on the radiator bar with none of the fittings, I believe you have a high shell on a low radiator. By the time the springs, top hats and covers are assembled, that shell will be much higher.

An easy check for incompatability is to see if there are stand offs on the side panels on the radiator and corresponding holes in the shell.

Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.


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Re: New Radiator- Shell not fitting right....

Post by mwarren » Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:39 am

Thank you everyone for your replies. First, my original post was a bit confusing in regards to the shell. The shell is not a new shell, its the same shell I had previously. When I said "I'm not sure how my old one fit" I meant my old radiator. My T is a 1923 Touring.

I determined that I have a low hood, a low shroud and a low radiator. It just doesn't fit right. I thought about cutting down my shroud a bit but then worried that my hood wouldn't fit quite right. I decided to just install it and leave it the way it is. It's not a show car, It doesn't look exactly right, but I haven't been able to drive the car yet all year and I don't want to wait any longer. I filled the radiator with coolant and away we went. I'm a but disappointed since I spent $900 on a new radiator and it isn't completely right, but if I wait for another new one, it will be winter by the time I get it.


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Re: New Radiator- Shell not fitting right....

Post by Mark Osterman » Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:48 am

Again .. I had the same problem and sent pictures to Gery who realized what the problem was and sent me a replacement. It’s too much money to just put up with a poor fitting radiator. I love the quality of his radiators .. no need for a pump and works perfectly in hot and 4 degree weather here in Rochester.


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Re: New Radiator- Shell not fitting right....

Post by Original Smith » Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:53 am

I bought a radiator made by the Brassworks a few years back for my '25. The brackets near the top on each side were not correctly made at all. I had to take two originals off an old radiator and mount them correctly. The purpose of these is not only to hold the shell to the radiator, but to retain the nut from turning while you put the screw in. That is just one reason I dislike reproductions.

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Re: New Radiator- Shell not fitting right....

Post by TRDxB2 » Sat Jun 29, 2019 12:57 pm

I measured my High shell. The triangular section with the Ford script from its bottom lip to the top of the shell is approximately 4 3/4 inches in height. From the bottom of that section to the top of the shell dog ear is approximately 16 1/4 inches. Total 21 inches. Now there was a photo (attached) in an old Forum thread that implies that the High shell triangular section is approximately 6 ". Having said that, the arrows in the photo appear to show a different reference point, so that measurement is in question. It would help for others to provide measurements as well for comparison. Hope this helps. Frank
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TRDxB2
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Re: New Radiator- Shell not fitting right....

Post by TRDxB2 » Sat Jun 29, 2019 1:00 pm

Another photo for High & Low shell differences
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349379.jpg (66.89 KiB) Viewed 1832 times


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Re: New Radiator- Shell not fitting right....

Post by wayne sheldon » Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:48 pm

There is almost an inch and a half difference in height between the low and the high shell.
Looking at the top (OP) photos, it appears to be missing fitting by only about half an inch.
A high shell put onto a low radiator almost reaches the top of the radiator neck.
Looking at how much of the neck shows in the OP photos makes me think it cannot be a high shell on a low radiator.

I don't know high shells very well. Some of them DO have brackets to attach near the top of the radiator. I "think" some do not have such bracket attachments. I know '26/'27 shells have the brackets, and are tapered to fit the slightly wider "flowing" hood. I am fairly sure that some '24/'25 shells do not have such brackets, but some may have them. LOW SHELLS do NOT have such bracket attachments! Low shells are held on and down by the radiator mounting studs through the frame. The top of the shell is held in place only by the rest of the shell and the radiator neck.

The one time I ran into a fit like this, many years ago, on an after-market radiator and a good Ford shell? The lower edge of the upper front (triangle shaped) panel in the shell hung up on the soldered seam around the upper radiator tank. It was just a rough soldering job, with a bit of an edge sticking forward. I used a couple putty knives (one on each side) like shoe horns and the shell slid right into place.

Could this be that simple?

I know that Berg's has had a few quality control issues (radiator necks too far back for the shell to fit), but they have always made things right and have a generally excellent reputation in the hobby. I can't believe they would make a radiator about a half inch TOO short.

Check the positioning of the neck to see if it could be hanging up there.
And check to see if the front panel could be catching on the top tank anywhere.


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Re: New Radiator- Shell not fitting right....

Post by John kuehn » Sat Jun 29, 2019 5:41 pm

I have a new Bergs radiator on my 24 Coupe. It fits just right and the Coupe does not get hot or have overheating issues. If I wanted another new radiator I would get another from him. He will make it right if there are any issues with the radiator itself.


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Re: New Radiator- Shell not fitting right....

Post by Allan » Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:25 am

Wayne mentioned having a Berg's radiator with the neck set too far back. The shell will hold up if that is the case. I had exactly that problem with a new brassworks radiator for my 1925 roadster. Not only was it set too far back, it would not accept a good original radiator cap by any more than 1 -2 turns. I had to have the neck removed, replaced it with a good original and had that refitted. That is the reason I bought it from the Australian importer. They are obliged to provide goods fit for service, or make them so. Whether they had any success with recompense from the manufacturer I do not know.

Allan from down under.


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Re: New Radiator- Shell not fitting right....

Post by DHort » Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:25 pm

Just finished talking with Gery. He has a radiator in stock for me. Dealers are 6-8 weeks out. He informed me that he makes his radiators just a bit short because the shrouds eat into the neck. He advised me to install a piece of leather between the shroud and the radiator to protect it from rubbing. He also advised me NOT to use a motometer. Extra weight that tends to break off the neck. He said it cools so well i will not need a motometer. It was a very pleasant conversation.

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