1916 RHD Touring????

[Oldav8tor]

I need the help of the experts on this forum. First item: A fellow came up to me at a gas station and asked where he might get help selling his father's Model T's. One is a 1927 Tudor the other is....a mystery. The car is Right Hand Drive and both front doors open. Canadian car, right? Maybe. The serial number on the patent plate is 1916 Canadian (without the C) the number on the engine is unreadable but appears to have some different numbers in it. The engine casting date is from June 1916 however. What is really confusing is the placard above the hood of the car listing what looks like a dealer in San Juan? Was this car exported and returned to the US? Why RHD? Also, is there any market for RHD cars in the US?

Item two - the fellow also had a pair of sidelights - they look a little like John Brown Model 60's but the top cap says "Indian Lamp Company 2 Connersville, IND" I don't see such a company listed as making lamps for Model T's. Anybody know anything about them?

Item 3 - He has a pair of huge lamps he believes came from a Lincoln. They are in outstanding condition. Anyone ever see anything like them before? I'd like to direct him to the right place to hopefully sell them.

Thanks for your help!

Indian Lamp Company?

Lincoln Headlights? The photo on the right has the bezel and lens removed to show the reflector

[JTT3]

I imagine there are a lot of folks that have an interest for right hand drive, especially a Canadian 4 door touring.

[Erik Johnson]

That San Juan dealer badge doesn't date to 1916 - it's much later.

[Dan Hatch]

Canadian were 4 door Tourings. My 25 Roadster Pickup has 2 doors and RHD.
Does the engine in the 16 have Made in Canada? My early 13 Canadian has the USa ground off. Not sure when they started casting block in Canada . The early cars used USA blocks with it ground off . Just remembered, the 13 did not have 4 doors. So the early cars did bot. But saw a 14 once and it had4.

[frontyboy]

I had some Indiana lights that were also stamped IHC. Tried for years to sell them. Finally found a antique tractor guy that had to have them. His buddy with him said putting brass sidelights on a tractor would be like putting ear rings on a pig.. I laughed and his buddy did but the buyer got really pissed and walked away with his lights.

just sayin'
frontyboy

[Allan]

I believe a Canadian serial number does not necessarily agree with the engine number. However, the C prefix in front of the engine number began in 1913, even on blocks from which the Made in USA has been deleted.
A Canadian car will be built with multiple Robinson screws with their readily apparent square drive socket head. By 1916 many of the parts were also branded Made In Canada.
Allan from down under.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

They are "Indiana Lamp Co." lamps. My Overland used them. Maybe "Indian" is a miss-stamp? Maybe the "a" has been buffed away?

[Drkbp]

Tim
Your Item Two: Side lamps by Indiana Lamp Company were apparently
used on a few 1909 Model T's. However, they appear to have been the
"two tier" version on cars with engine numbers between 6,900 to 10,600.
May have been the "M&E lamp" referred to in the old Encyclopedia.
Scott R posted very nice photo on a previous discussion.
I have two other 1909 photos and both with two tier.
KP

[bill_severn]

WOW, gotta love that RHD car. Strange looking right front fender. Anyone know anything about that?

Bill

[Oldav8tor]

Ahaaa! Indiana Lamp Company - I worked the contrast on the photo and can just pick out the A. The dad probably picked up them up at a swap meet many years ago. Thanks Jerry.

The controls all seem to be reversed - the throttle and spark linkages are quite interesting when compared to LHD cars.

I found info on Alberto J. Castilla - he opened the first Ford dealership in San Juan, Puerto Rico in 1922 - how this car is connected to him is a question that will not likely be answered. I did find this photo of Alberto sitting in a similar car - maybe the exact same one - a few things don't match but if it is the same car the photo may have been taken many years before the car returned to mainland USA. Note that the car pictured is RHD

[JTT3]

Tim I get the feeling this 16 may find a home in your garage. Ha

[Oldav8tor]

In my garage....truthfully, I hadn't really thought seriously about buying it. RHD? Geez, I have enough trouble keeping everything straight on my '17 LHD. You shouldn't put ideas into my head

[speedytinc]

Go for it.
The less common T versions of T's are more interesting. RHD 4 doors - COOL.
I wonder if that T is the same T the dealer owned & put a later tag on it, maybe for dealership display.
Coincidence or not??

[JTT3]

Tim I’ve seen several folks looking for parts for RHD T’s over the years & always thought how unique to have one & a brass 4 door at that.
Lots of folks have a regular T not many in the states I suppose. Best part you wouldn’t be looking for any parts. If you need them I have a set of RHD COILS, ha.
I’ve thought about this and having a bit of experience in the diplomatic corp, I image that some consulate or well healed Canadian may have had the car shipped to PR. for use while there. I do know that several thousand Canadians visit or have second homes in Puerto Rico. Go for it!

[Oldav8tor]

I will say this, the car is interesting - the spark and throttle linkages especially so. I suspect RHD parts could be difficult to find in the US, even in Canada as I believe the RHD's were for export. I find it interesting that Canada had the exclusive rights to sell cars everywhere in the British Commonwealth except the British Isles. Thus the need for both LHD and RHD (and 4 doors).

I wonder how hard it is to rebuild a RHD coil?

[RajoRacer]

On the RHD Ts I've seen, the timer is mounted upside down for the spark lead to operate correctly - nice car !

[Kerry]

The timer would only be upside down if using a USA LHD one, the RHD Canadian ones had the oiler on top and arm on the bottom.

[RajoRacer]

That's the type I've seen - I have several Canadian fiends w/RHD cars.

[Allan]

Occasionally I come across timers with two pull arms, to suit RHD and LHD cars. These are most likely aftermarket items.

Fitting an Anderson timer for RHD cars can cause confusion. More than once I have had stories of backfiring and failure to start, because they had installed the wiring according to the colours stamped on the cover, not realisoing that this mucks up the timing by 180 degrees when the timer is installed with the arm to the bottom.

Allan from down under.

[Dan Hatch]

I have seen aluminum timers for the 13/15 cars with an oiler on them but if you look 180 from that you see a center mark. That is for the oiler on RHD. I look for that stuff cause I have a 25 RDH Roadster Pickup.
Does this 16 have all the Made in Canada marking on it?
How about the engine block? My late 12/13 Canadian running gear engine has USA ground off. Thanks Dan

[JTT3]

Tim if I’m not mistaken when working on RHD COILS
you have to turn the case to the other side but not sure. I hope you end up with it. Has the Gent given you a guestament on what he’d accept for it? Best John

[Oldav8tor]

someone else told him around $5k for either it or the 27Tudor. I'm not sure. We may try to see if either one will start. They've both sat a long time but at least they were on a good floor and out of the elements.

[A Whiteman]

Tim if I’m not mistaken when working on RHD COILS
you have to turn the case to the other side but not sure.

Coils go in the car and operate just the same LHD and RHD, same internal structure and parts - no difference at all.

[Craig E. Luton]

I would like to see a picture of the top of the sidelights. I could be interested in purching them if they are for sale. Craig