My First Model T. 1921 roadster

Discuss all things Model T related.
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules

Topic author
Chris Haynes
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:00 pm
First Name: Chris
Last Name: Haynes
Location: North Hills. CA
Board Member Since: 2019

My First Model T. 1921 roadster

Post by Chris Haynes » Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:25 pm

The car interior burned decades ago. It had been in indoor storage. But 3 or 4 years ago a young man bought with the intention of building a street rod. Thankfully he didn't. What he did do is store it outside in the dirt under a walnut tree. Needless to say every square inch of the car was stuffed with walnut shells discarded by rodents.
As you can see in the picture it is missing the hood, cowl lights, and a hubcap. Also needs a headlight lens. I have just located a hood.
The radiator is in the shop getting cleaned.
I am scrubbing and using Evaporust to get the powdery layers of rust off of it. Then I'll rub it out and wax it to arrest any more deterioration. Although I will need all new wiring and electrics I am trying not to have anything looking new on it. I am going to fix whatever needs fixing, re-bush springs and king pins. Whatever needs to be done to be safe.
I am also looking for a rear non-de-mountable wheel as one had dry rot and fell apart.
The coil box paint had been burned off. The coils leaked a small amount of tar. I figured those 98 year old coils were toast. My friend George Hood asked me to bring them over to his place. He tested them and they all had hot fire. He is sure that the engine will run too. I have doubts.
Trying to find someone who makes wood for it is the current task. The folks in Utah say they won't be making any new wood for a few months.

Here is a link to a picture of it.
https://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp2 ... ljsuc6.jpg


Dallas Landers
Posts: 973
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:26 pm
First Name: Dallas
Last Name: Landers
Location: N.E. Indiana
MTFCA Number: 49995

Re: My First Model T. 1921 roadster

Post by Dallas Landers » Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:55 pm

Welcome to the affliction Chris. Looks like a very solid car. Glad you saved it. Any questions you have can be answered by the great people on this forum. Its better to ask 1st on alot of things. Sounds like you have a mentor close. Keep us posted on your progress.

User avatar

RustyFords
Posts: 739
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:16 am
First Name: Don
Last Name: Allen
Location: Houston, TX
MTFCA Number: 50001

Re: My First Model T. 1921 roadster

Post by RustyFords » Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:13 pm

Welcome Chris. You've come to right place.

I'm two and a half years into the T affliction and have received a ton of advice and encouragement here.
1924 Touring


Norman Kling
Posts: 401
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:39 pm
First Name: Norman
Last Name: Kling
Location: Alpine California

Re: My First Model T. 1921 roadster

Post by Norman Kling » Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:37 pm

Where is North Hills? Looks like a good project.
Norm

User avatar

Steve Jelf
Posts: 1591
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:37 pm
First Name: Steve
Last Name: Jelf
Location: Parkerfield, Kansas
MTFCA Number: 16175
MTFCI Number: 14758
Board Member Since: 2007
Contact:

Re: My First Model T. 1921 roadster

Post by Steve Jelf » Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:04 pm

Norm, North Hills is the the new name for the former Sepulveda, former Mission Acres. I don't know where they got the name, because it's in the Valley, between Van Nuys and San Fernando. I don't recall seeing any hills there. :)

20190625_185635_zps0kljsuc6.jpg
Chris, the line about "coil box paint burned off" is a little worrisome. That might indicate carbon tracking. If so, you can cure it with the Fun Projects coil box kit.
The inevitable often happens.
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring


John bevardos
Posts: 51
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:58 am
First Name: John
Last Name: bevardos
Location: Los Angeles

Re: My First Model T. 1921 roadster

Post by John bevardos » Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:14 pm

Chris,
I live just right down the road from you in Canoga park, And a Santa Monica native too!! PM me if you need any help. Have plenty of tools , some spares and can rebuild you coils if needed.

John


Topic author
Chris Haynes
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:00 pm
First Name: Chris
Last Name: Haynes
Location: North Hills. CA
Board Member Since: 2019

Re: My First Model T. 1921 roadster

Post by Chris Haynes » Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:15 am

Norman Kling wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:37 pm
Where is North Hills? Looks like a good project.
Norm
Formerly called Sepulveda in The San Fernando Valley.


Topic author
Chris Haynes
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:00 pm
First Name: Chris
Last Name: Haynes
Location: North Hills. CA
Board Member Since: 2019

Re: My First Model T. 1921 roadster

Post by Chris Haynes » Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:17 am

Steve Jelf wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:04 pm
Norm, North Hills is the the new name for the former Sepulveda, former Mission Acres. I don't know where they got the name, because it's in the Valley, between Van Nuys and San Fernando. I don't recall seeing any hills there. :)
If you go South on Woodley between Lassen and Plummer you will see the hill. :-)


Allan
Posts: 757
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:21 pm
First Name: Allan
Last Name: Bennett
Location: Gawler, Australia

Re: My First Model T. 1921 roadster

Post by Allan » Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:18 am

Chris, it may be a little earlier than 21. By then, on our Canadian sourced cars, the square wooden felloe wheels were long gone, as was the crank handle with the cast iron sleeve. Our 1919 models all came with starters ans generators as soon as they were available. The windscreen sidelight mounts may men your roadster is a 'poverty pack' having no starter and generator. Others more familar with US cars may have more info.

Allan from down under.


John kuehn
Posts: 530
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:00 pm
First Name: John
Last Name: Kuehn
Location: Texas
MTFCA Number: 28924

Re: My First Model T. 1921 roadster

Post by John kuehn » Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:42 am

Wow Chris, your have a really straight T to begin with! A lot of guys started with a LOT less including me with my 1919 Roadster. It looks to be a mostly complete original. If it had been under that tree for many many years it wouldn’t have looked like it does for sure.
Great find and thanks for saving it from a hot rod or rat rod future. And it even has the top bows still with it. Amazing! I would ask if it has a round or oval gas tank in it. The original tank would be oval but they would get replaced at times with the earlier round tank.
Neat!


John Codman
Posts: 149
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:27 am
First Name: John
Last Name: Codman
Location: Naples, FL 34120

Re: My First Model T. 1921 roadster

Post by John Codman » Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:21 am

I am a bit confused by your comment that the car needs all new wiring, but you don't want anything that looks new on the car. I would install a new harness. It's a lot less work and cheaper then redoing the car after a fire. The very first thing that I did on my T was to replace the harness. You also mentioned that you are having the radiator cleaned. That's a good idea, but don't be surprised if you still have overheating issues. The joints between the tubes and fins lose their conductivity (of heat) over time. If that is the case, the fix is a new flat-tube radiator. BTW - the car looks great!


John Codman
Posts: 149
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:27 am
First Name: John
Last Name: Codman
Location: Naples, FL 34120

Re: My First Model T. 1921 roadster

Post by John Codman » Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:21 am

I am a bit confused by your comment that the car needs all new wiring, but you don't want anything that looks new on the car. I would install a new harness. It's a lot less work and cheaper then redoing the car after a fire. The very first thing that I did on my T was to replace the harness. You also mentioned that you are having the radiator cleaned. That's a good idea, but don't be surprised if you still have overheating issues. The joints between the tubes and fins lose their conductivity (of heat) over time. If that is the case, the fix is a new flat-tube radiator. BTW - the car looks great!


John kuehn
Posts: 530
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:00 pm
First Name: John
Last Name: Kuehn
Location: Texas
MTFCA Number: 28924

Re: My First Model T. 1921 roadster

Post by John kuehn » Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:49 pm

If you want to drive your T pretty much like it is it would be a good idea to get new battery cables and all new wiring. Next buy the fun projects coil box kit and rebuild your coil box.
It’s pretty easy rewiring a Model T and rebuilding the coil box and a new set of coils will really help. By the looks of you pic of the car you need a new wood dash. The vendors have those.
Make sure you have a good ground surface for the negative battery cable.
Good luck and have fun.

User avatar

Duey_C
Posts: 521
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:28 pm
First Name: Duane
Last Name: Cooley
Location: central MN
MTFCA Number: 32488
Board Member Since: 2015

Re: My First Model T. 1921 roadster

Post by Duey_C » Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:10 am

Gorgeous Runabout Chris! Welcome to the forum! These guys are amazing. :) You meet the nicest people on a T!
I agree with Allan, it might be a bit earlier than a '21. ;) Windshield brackets and front engine mount (front bearing and spring clip) have me wondering. The '18 runabout here was thought to be a '23 (titled as a '20) due to the engine but he's an 18.
You probably know this but in case, perhaps peruse the online encyclopedia at http://mtfca.com/encyclo/index.htm
Much more info is available. A free digital '25 service manual is available for your computer or phone thru very generous Tony C's site.
http://cimorelli.com/mtdl/servicemanual/default.htm No affiliation but think it's great as I'm so dumb-cheap sometimes. :lol:
Thanks for showing us and do keep us informed! I'd love to see more progress if you will.
You have doubts whether it'll run? How come. Your first T huh? :)
Those little buggers are tough and scrappy and will surprise you, they sure do surprise me. If you have some compression in all four, you're set for testing.
Perhaps pull the timing cover and cam gear and check to see if the oil tube is clear.
Guys, do we have to pull the gear to blow out the line? I had to pull the gear on my 18 to re-time the cam so it was off already when I saw a plugged oil line.....
Ya might get lucky with your coil box if it's very dry there but a kit is in order.
The FP kits are wonderful and did a friend's TT coil box just because I could and bought it and installed it for him.
Steve, you didn't post a link to your very cool sight... he has a ton of T info on his dauntless geezer site.
http://www.dauntlessgeezer.com/DG52.html Starting point.
Oops, typed too much again but I like your Runabout.
:)
Since I lost my mind mind, I feel more liberated


Topic author
Chris Haynes
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:00 pm
First Name: Chris
Last Name: Haynes
Location: North Hills. CA
Board Member Since: 2019

Re: My First Model T. 1921 roadster

Post by Chris Haynes » Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:10 am

Allan wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:18 am
Chris, it may be a little earlier than 21. By then, on our Canadian sourced cars, the square wooden felloe wheels were long gone, as was the crank handle with the cast iron sleeve. Our 1919 models all came with starters ans generators as soon as they were available. The windscreen sidelight mounts may men your roadster is a 'poverty pack' having no starter and generator. Others more familar with US cars may have more info.

Allan from down under.
The engine dates from July 1921. This is the bottom of the line car minus starter, generator and battery. My friend calls it the Farmers model as farmers bought the cheap cars.The non demountable rims were cheaper.


Topic author
Chris Haynes
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:00 pm
First Name: Chris
Last Name: Haynes
Location: North Hills. CA
Board Member Since: 2019

Re: My First Model T. 1921 roadster

Post by Chris Haynes » Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:12 am

John kuehn wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:42 am
I would ask if it has a round or oval gas tank in it. The original tank would be oval but they would get replaced at times with the earlier round tank.
Neat!
It is oval. I believe that this car has been sitting since before WWII. No proof, its just that things are in pretty good condition. Red inner tubes.


Topic author
Chris Haynes
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:00 pm
First Name: Chris
Last Name: Haynes
Location: North Hills. CA
Board Member Since: 2019

Re: My First Model T. 1921 roadster

Post by Chris Haynes » Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:18 am

John Codman wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:21 am
I am a bit confused by your comment that the car needs all new wiring, but you don't want anything that looks new on the car. I would install a new harness. It's a lot less work and cheaper then redoing the car after a fire. The very first thing that I did on my T was to replace the harness. You also mentioned that you are having the radiator cleaned. That's a good idea, but don't be surprised if you still have overheating issues. The joints between the tubes and fins lose their conductivity (of heat) over time. If that is the case, the fix is a new flat-tube radiator. BTW - the car looks great!
The fire was in the interior. Nothing in the engine compartment burned. The original wiring harness is intact. I have bought a new harness just to be safe.
The radiator is in the shop now. It was full of rust. It is a shop that all the old car guys I know take their stuff to. I asked him not to clean it up or paint it. Sadly the inlet hose connection was rusted out. I ordered a new one from Brassworks and was disappointed that it was cast brass and not steel as the original.
The engine cooling system is now filled with Rust911. I used Rust911 to clean the cooling system on my 1930 Model A and it did a wonderful job. Afterwards the block and head were spotlessly clean and rust free. I'll let it sit for a couple days then drain, flush, and refill with more Rust911. I will probably have to do this a few times to get it spotless.
Last edited by Chris Haynes on Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:52 am, edited 1 time in total.


Topic author
Chris Haynes
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:00 pm
First Name: Chris
Last Name: Haynes
Location: North Hills. CA
Board Member Since: 2019

Re: My First Model T. 1921 roadster

Post by Chris Haynes » Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:23 am

John kuehn wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:49 pm
If you want to drive your T pretty much like it is it would be a good idea to get new battery cables and all new wiring. My car has no battery, starter, or generator.

Next buy the fun projects coil box kit and rebuild your coil box. The coil box is in pretty good condition

It’s pretty easy rewiring a Model T and rebuilding the coil box and a new set of coils will really help. By the looks of you pic of the car you need a new wood dash. The vendors have those. Mine has the switch on the coil box. No dash on this model.

Make sure you have a good ground surface for the negative battery cable. No battery, no cable. :-)
Good luck and have fun.


wayne sheldon
Posts: 1026
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:13 pm
First Name: Wayne
Last Name: Sheldon
Location: Grass Valley Califunny, USA
Board Member Since: 2005

Re: My First Model T. 1921 roadster

Post by wayne sheldon » Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:27 am

It is in a lot better shape than my '15 runabout was when I started work on it!

The "loss leader" or "farmer's specials" (any of a dozen other euphemisms) were actually quite common back in the days. As someone that has looked very closely at thousands of original era photographs of model Ts, I can tell you that the non-demountable wheels option was VERY common, while the non-electric option was less common, they do show up often enough. Apparently, many people were less concerned about having to fix a tire on the side of the road than they were about the neighbors seeing them crank the car to start it!

It is your car, to do how you want it. But very few people today keep or restore Ts back to non-starter, and non-demountable. I would love to know you keep it that way as an example of how many Ts used to be.


Topic author
Chris Haynes
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:00 pm
First Name: Chris
Last Name: Haynes
Location: North Hills. CA
Board Member Since: 2019

Re: My First Model T. 1921 roadster

Post by Chris Haynes » Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:37 am

Duey_C wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:10 am
I agree with Allan, it might be a bit earlier than a '21. ;) Windshield brackets and front engine mount (front bearing and spring clip) have me wondering. You probably know this but in case, perhaps peruse the online encyclopedia at http://mtfca.com/encyclo/index.htm
Much more info is available.
I looked at the online encyclopedia and found this. "JUL 19 1921 Acc. 235, Box 38, Ford Archives
"We wish to call your attention to the new style pressed steel running board bracket which has gone into production and as shipments have been made to some of the branches we ask that you kindly note the changes which will go into effect through the adoption of this new bracket."

My car has these pressed steel brackets.


Original Smith
Posts: 889
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:43 am
First Name: Larry
Last Name: Smith
Location: Lomita, California
MTFCA Number: 121
MTFCA Life Member: YES
MTFCI Number: 16310

Re: My First Model T. 1921 roadster

Post by Original Smith » Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:30 am

Looks like a fun project. Have lots of fun! I'd definitely put some tires on it though! If you ever feel like taking in some ocean air, come on down for a visit. I live about 45 minutes south of you.


Topic author
Chris Haynes
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:00 pm
First Name: Chris
Last Name: Haynes
Location: North Hills. CA
Board Member Since: 2019

Re: My First Model T. 1921 roadster

Post by Chris Haynes » Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:52 pm

wayne sheldon wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:27 am
It is your car, to do how you want it. But very few people today keep or restore Ts back to non-starter, and non-demountable. I would love to know you keep it that way as an example of how many Ts used to be.
I am simply going to clean this survivor up and make it safe. Nothing will be added or upgraded.


Scott_Conger
Posts: 1596
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:18 am
First Name: Scott
Last Name: Conger
Location: Clark, WY
Board Member Since: 2005

Re: My First Model T. 1921 roadster

Post by Scott_Conger » Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:30 pm

Good for you

post a photo of it's first drive for us
Scott Conger

Full Flow Float Valves - deliver fuel like Henry intended!


Topic author
Chris Haynes
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:00 pm
First Name: Chris
Last Name: Haynes
Location: North Hills. CA
Board Member Since: 2019

Re: My First Model T. 1921 roadster

Post by Chris Haynes » Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:15 am

The latest discussion about my July 1921 engine and the rear of the body being only three piece instead of five have it as an early 1922.


Erik Johnson
Posts: 140
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:25 pm
First Name: Erik
Last Name: Johnson
Location: Minneapolis, MN

Re: My First Model T. 1921 roadster

Post by Erik Johnson » Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:46 am

The change from five to three pieces pertains to the rear of touring bodies, not the roadster bodies.


John kuehn
Posts: 530
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:00 pm
First Name: John
Last Name: Kuehn
Location: Texas
MTFCA Number: 28924

Re: My First Model T. 1921 roadster

Post by John kuehn » Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:19 am

I think Eric is right about the Roadster bodies not being changed like the Tourings were.
The Roadster bodies from 17-22 look almost identical other than small details in the hardware. I think Ford started using the metal firewall around 22. This one still has the wood firewall. Over time T owners would use the metal firewall to replace the original wood firewall in the earlier cars since they would interchange.

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic