Your friendly pest asking for more advice!

[Mike S]

Okay, first off, I want to sincerely thank all of you for providing information for me to get my '27 Coupe up to snuff. I had to get a new timer, had the carburetor rebuilt, and got the coils fixed up.

When I got this car, it had obviously been worked on by someone who just did what was required to get it running, well sort of!

I am going to drain the radiator and replace the coolant just for safety since winter is approaching.

I have NO idea when the oil has been replaced. It is very dark black, which I would suspect is normal for these vehicles. So, I am going to drain the oil tomorrow and replace it with new oil.

Somewhere along the line on these forums, I read where someone flushed the system out with kerosene to clean it up. Is that a wise practice? I don't know when or how this was done previously, so while going through the effort I want to do what is best for the vehicle. Whoever had it previously, had put a regular nut on the band clamps and the vibration loosens the nut, so I ordered replacement ones with the indent and am planning to replace them when I drain the oil.

And yes, I have been told to stuff rags into the transmission opening to keep from dropping parts in there. That might be the cause of the non-standard nut and washers on the bands.

If I can get enough of the oil drained/cleaned, maybe I can use a scope to look in there. Am I going down the right path?

Thanks in advance as this is all new to me.

[speedytinc]

The dipper cover holds 1/2 qt or so of oil.
Since this is an unknown motor, go a step beyond an oil change. Remove the dipper cover & horse shoes to wipe out the sediment that collects there & the dirty oil that doesnt drain from the plug. Good time to check rod looseness & remove a shim or two if needed.

[Mike S]

The dipper cover holds 1/2 qt or so of oil.
Since this is an unknown motor, go a step beyond an oil change. Remove the dipper cover & horse shoes to wipe out the sediment that collects there & the dirty oil that doesnt drain from the plug. Good time to check rod looseness & remove a shim or two if needed.

Hate to be ignorant but where is the dipper cover located? I am assuming at the bottom of the transmission areea?

[speedytinc]

Its the big cover plate @ the bottom of the crankcase ahead of the transmission sump. Its the access plate to get to the rods & mains.

[TXGOAT2]

I'd drain the oil with the engine hot. Don't flush with kerosene or any other solvent. You can remove the plate on the bottom of the crankcase to check for sediment and crud as advised above. Replace the dip pan and gasket, and refill the engine with 3 1/2 to 4 quarts of 10W30 detergent motor oil. Your car may have an aftermarket transmission cover screen located just behind the engine and under the floorboards. If it has one, it probably needs cleaned. DO NOT drop any screws or anything else into the transmission!!

[WatchDog]

You are recommending modern detergent motor oil?

[Mike S]

I'd drain the oil with the engine hot. Don't flush with kerosene or any other solvent. You can remove the plate on the bottom of the crankcase to check for sediment and crud as advised above. Replace the dip pan and gasket, and refill the engine with 3 1/2 to 4 quarts of 10W30 detergent motor oil. Your car may have an aftermarket transmission cover screen located just behind the engine and under the floorboards. If it has one, it probably needs cleaned. DO NOT drop any screws or anything else into the transmission!!

I don't have the transmission screen yet. It did not have one, but I have ordered one, but it is on backorder. I am assuming that I can make a new gasket out of gasket material using the plate. I am sorry to be so inquisitive but this is all new to me. I want to do what is right to get the car in as good operating condition as possible.

[TXGOAT2]

"You are recommending modern detergent motor oil?"

Yes. 10W30 detergent oil. If you run your car in cold weather, use 10W20 or 5W20.

Ford recommended what amounts to 20W oil. Multigrade oil was not available in the Model T era. Detergent oil will help keep a clean engine free of sludge and varnish. It will prevent new deposits in older engines and will very slowly reduce existing deposits if it is changed regularly. Thick motor oils are bad for Model Ts for several reasons. Thick oil is especially bad in colder weather.

[WatchDog]

That is an interesting perspective. I disagree about detergent oil but thank you for the explanatikn.

[TXGOAT2]

Your engine will benefit from using multi-grade detergent oil. That's a FACT. 10W30 is a good choice for most USA summer driving. If you drive your car in cold weather, 5W30 or 5W20 is a good choice. Regular oil, synthetic blends, or full synthetic oils work well. I drive my T a lot, often in very hot weather at speeds over 40 MPH for miles on end. I use full synthetic 10W30 with excellent results over many thousands of miles of driving. If you want to use non-detergent oil, use it on the chassis oil cups and on the springs and things like body hinges. For the grease cups, modern "tacky red grease" is a popular choice. There are a number of very good reasons to use multi-grade detergent oil in Model T Ford engines, and not one single good reason not to. Modern multigrade oil is far superior to the best oil available in the Model T era, and it is fully consistent with Ford Motor Company's recommendation for Model T motor oil. 10W30 detergent oil is the most widely available and usually among the least expensive motor oils available today. It exceeds all specifications laid down by Ford Motor Co. for Model T motor oil, and it has a number of beneficial qualities not available in the best motor oil available in the Model T era.

[WatchDog]

Thanks for your response.

[TXGOAT2]

In Houston and across South Texas, I'd run 10W30 all year.

[Mike S]

Hey guys, I drained the oil and took the "dipper cover" off the bottom. There was a good bit of crud in it, but now it is all clean.

There was a gasket on the plate, but it appears that someone used silicone sealant as it was clear to yellow looking and pretty gummed up.

I cleaned it off and washed the plate with denatured alcohol, which cleaned it up really well. I cut a new gasket out of gasket material but I think that I have read that y'all use a gasket forming sealant, I believe it is black colored.

I'm headed to the store to get some antifreeze mixture (yes I drained the radiator and it looked pretty good). I want to pick some of the sealant stuff up when I run to the store (15 miles from my house).

What is the name of the sealant stuff?

[RajoRacer]

Black RTV.

[speedytinc]

Permatex Ultra black.
There is a black rtv that is thin like the clear stuff. Not good enough.

[RajoRacer]

I use what you listed, John - didn't go out to the shop to verify !

[big2bird]

Your yellow sealant was gasgacinch or yellow 3m weatherstrip adhesive, aka gorilla snot.

For that plate I had greatluck with Permatex #2.

[Allan]

With the plate off the bottom did you remove the threaded horse shoes in the pan that the bolts thread into? They are the sludge trap, not just the depressions in the bottom cover.
Alan from down under.

[Mike S]

Thanks guys! I drained the oil which looked like black ink, not oil. I took the plate off the bottom and cleaned it up. There was a fair amount of "crud" and I cleaned it up. I ran the car for a while to warm the oil first and have let it drip out all night. So now on to the continuation of this adventure.

Got me some Permatex RTV ultra black. I formed a new gasket out of gasket material, even though I ordered a new replacement gasket from Langs.

My plan is to put the RTV on the plate, then the gasket, then some more RTV on top of the gasket. Then grease on the bottom of the engine (to allow future removal and inspection.

I have had issues with oil leakage from this portion of the car and this hopefully will clear that up.

While I have the oil drained, I need to adjust the bands and linkages as when I press the clutch, only about an inch of travel enters neutral, but anything forward of that inch of travel on the pedal actually puts it in low gear though not completely.

I know I am probably boring you folks, but my wife bought this car for me and even though I don't know as much as I should, with your help I am learning and trying to get this car running smoothly.

[John kuehn]

Just read your post and as you will find people will have slightly different opinions on different subjects on the forum. Looks like you’re on your way to getting your T running.
As far as cleaning the internals of the engine up using about a gallon of kerosene in it and turning the crank or starter to turn it over a few times to clean it up can’t hurt a bit.
When you drain the kerosene out you’ll get a big surprise on how dirty the kerosene will be. Especially if the oil was black and hasn’t been changed in a while.

Another thing that can help if the bottom crankcase cover seems like it’s got some slow leaks is to lay the cover on a flat piece of iron or anvil and flatten out the bolt holes on the crankcase bottom cover. Over time the holes get dimpled and will slowly leak.

Yours may not be but some get that way from being taken off and on many times.

Good luck and enjoy your Model T. Be sure to get you a Model T service book and call the parts suppliers like Lang’s, Snyder’s and others and they will send you a parts catalogue. There is a lot of good information about T parts that can really be of help.

[TXGOAT2]

Black oil can be the result of not changing it often enough, but it can also be caused by running the engine with an over rich fuel mixture. The safest way to clean out the engine, after removing the crankcase plate and cleaning both it and the horseshoes, is to run fresh multigrade detergent oil in it. Check the oil often, and if it gets thick or VERY dark after a hundred miles or so of on-the-road driving, change it again. Learn the use the spark control and the carburetor and choke properly for best performance, economy, and engine life. If the engine misses, find the cause and correct it. If you run a water pump on a Model T, you also need to run a thermostat.

[TXGOAT2]

Removing the hogshead cover plate will allow getting a good look at the insides of the transmission, which can reveal heavy sludging, if present, and worn bands and drums, if present. Removing the valve cover plates may reveal sludge or other debris. Black oil caused by an over-rich fuel mixture may not cause sludging. In such a case, the oil may be very black and thinner than normal. It is normal for motor oil to get black during normal operation. Oil that is both thick and black may indicate neglect, or it may simply indicate that someone put thick oil in the engine to begin with, or perhaps doped the oil with STP or some such product. Water in the oil often gives it a brownish or grayish color, usually with thickening.

[Mike S]

Thanks folks. I believe that the black oil is from two primary causes. First, I believe that the oil has been neglected. There was only about 1.5 quarts of oil in the vehicle when I drained it. I don't believe that there was too much wear due to this because my friend George Akin (MTFCA past president and board member) checked the compression, and it was excellent.

The second reason that I believe the oil to be dark is your comments about running the car too rich. When I got the car, the plugs were filthy with soot. The second reason was that the timer was bad and not working properly. Third is that the coils were not firing properly. All of which George helped me get fixed. So, I believe that I am heading the right direction. I am trying not to bother George too much and asking for opinions on here since I don't want to overwork him, which with my lack of knowledge and too many things to do will outwear the welcome!

Thanks again for your help.

Mike

[TXGOAT2]

If you drained out a quart and a half at the drain plug, the engine probably had a little over 2 quarts of oil in it. Not enough, by any means, but unless the car was driven very hard with low oil, it probably did no harm. It's also possible that the oil was diluted with gasoline when the car was last run, giving a false indication of the amount of oil in the engine. If the car has been out of service for a while, the gasoline, if present, may have evaporated, leaving the liquid level in the pan lower than it was previously. I'd clean the dip pan as suggested above, and put 4 quarts of fresh 10W30 detergent oil in it, correct any tune up issues, and drive the car on the road at moderate speeds and avoiding hard climbs. If the engine knocks, it will be necessary to check the rod bearings for clearance and any indication of damage. If there is any damage from running with a low oil level, it is likely to be the # 1 connecting rod bearing. If it does not knock, I'd drive it on the road, keeping speeds and loads moderate, keeping a close eye on oil level, water level, sediment bulb, and so forth. The car should start easily and run smoothly, and it should not be difficult to start the car moving and to shift from low to high without jerking or other drama. It should not wander on the road, or shake and shimmy, or ride very hard. If it does any of these things, adjustment, lubrication,, or repair is needed. Tires that have sat for periods of time may flat spot, which will cause issues at some speeds. If they are polyester cord tires, they may be OK after being driven a few miles. The Ford Service manual has information on diagnosing a variety of common problems, and has information on diagnosing and correcting knocks.

[TXGOAT2]

I would get an accurate, dial type tire gauge and put 28 PSI (cold) in all four tires. That is plenty of pressure for a late T coupe with starter and battery on balloon tires.