Binding Clutch?

[VinTin23]

I have a 22 T with a 26/27 Engine & Transmission. Has Ruckstell & large drum RMB installed. Engine starts right up and is strong, but The car has always struggled to move. Low & reverse needed high rpm and often will stall, especially in reverse.

I’ve had the car since 2020, prior owner had it for well over 30 years, spent a lot of time outside under a cover, but parked it inside for at least 15 years. They said the car always seemed to have drivability issues, like something was wrong in the transmission. This was primarily why it was parked. No idea if they are original clutch disks or aftermarket.

The engine is free and rotates with the crank, no resistance felt at all. With cover off, clutch spring does not appear broken, no obvious damage. I’ve always had a magnet and screen on trans. Never picked up any metal or anything unusual.

I’ve changed bands twice, I had cloth, now has wooden bands. Good neutral and still same thing. I can loosen or tighten the bands and will do the same thing whenever engaged. To define the “Good Neutral” it’s adjusted per the manual and clearly compresses clutch when observed with cover removed. Pedal moves when handbrake released and has the sweet spot in the pedal of neutral. The car can be pushed in neutral with some effort, and there seems to be some drag. Clutch fingers are adjusted to 13/16 using the brass “Go-No-Go” tool from Lang’s. New pedal cams on hogs head.

I’ve tried it on jack stands with all brake rods disconnected, same thing. I have removed the rear end & driveshaft housing. Pinion gear and key are good. Rear end turns freely and smooth .

Everything is back together. Free neutral adjusted per manual, all pedals adjusted with floorboards in place. I’m ready to start over .

My understanding is clutch is really only in play with high gear. Is it possible clutch is stuck, or not releasing and causing the problems in low & reverse?

What else can I do or am I missing something.

[Moxie26]

I would suggest checking cylinder compression... Could be rings or valve seating clearances have worn to where you're losing compression which equates to losing power.

[speedytinc]

"The engine is free and rotates with the crank, no resistance felt at all" Doesnt sound like a clutch problem.
With the brake lever forward & hand cranking, does the car want to move forward on you? If so = clutch locks up as designed.
With the hand brake set & hand cranking, you should feel distinct resistance for each of the 4 cylinders on compression stroke.
If not, no compression. This fits your description. Do a compression test. Its possible the rings are stuck from sitting or your motor is worn out.
Squirt some oil into each cylinder & retest. Does the compression improve a little. That's rings. If no improvement - valves.
You can look into the cylinders thru the spark plug holes @ the valves looking for general condition & opening & closing function.
Your Rux could be in direct with 3-1 gears. That presents as a lack of horsepower. So shift it & try driving again.

[Mike Silbert]

Sounds a lot like down on power.
Engine worn out, carburetor or vacuum leak issue, bad timing, ignition etc but make sure it is a solid start inside first.

Check compression or leak-down in the cylinders to see if things are still good inside.
If you have a borescope you can look inside at what is going on.
They are getting cheap and common these days.

To check the clutch:
It seems to have a good neutral (release) from your description already.
But to check remove the spark plugs and with it in neutral turn the starting crank, it will tell you how good neutral is.
To see if it grabs chock the tires well and put the brake lever in high gear.
Engage the starting crank in the horizontal position and stand on it.
If it holds you up then the clutch locks up fine.
I don't think that is a problem but it is a real easy test.

If you are concerned about drivetrain dragging issues here is a quick test:
Pull the spark plugs and jack up the rear wheels.
With it in high gear turn the starting crank.
What you feel then is the drivetrain friction.
I expect this to be good but it is another quick test.

Mike

[Scott_Conger]

Triple gear seized? Check that each gear will slide back/forth a very tiny bit and will "rock" to the extent that there is gear lash.
Too tight of a stack-up of drums or a tight bushing? Check that each drum will "rock" similarly as the triple gears and can move a few thou back and forth similar to triple gears.

A spinning, racing engine/transmission has far too much inertia (especially when racing) to be faulted for low compression just because it stalls when a pedal is applied - with the caveat that the timing is not wildly advanced and is set appropriately retarded when starting off in low gear. It may ultimately be gutless, but a low compression engine most certainly can be made to hook up in low gear - all things being equal...especially if it has a Ruckstell and is in low range. As an example, my '13 has its original engine and has severely low compression but will still start and is an exceedingly smooth runner which has zero trouble starting out in low, cruises nicely at 30MPH, but won't climb a hill worth a hoot.

FWIW - it is extremely difficult to get bands to stop a drum (move the car) if the engine is being raced - a healthy T should be able to fully hook-up in low gear at idle and will do so if sitting on a paved surface, only one or two people are in the car, and timing is not overly advanced.

Attending any size tour will clearly demonstrate that a great many "T" drivers do not know the first thing about correctly operating their cars, and is simply a reflection of honest ignorance, having been taught by someone who also did not know how to properly operate the car. Anyone can drive 30MPH in high gear in a "T", but only a woefully small percentage of drivers can near-silently pull away from a parking spot. It's usually accompanied by noise, revving, smoke and drama. Except for the fact that this is not the only "T" that Marty owns, and the previous owner complained of operability issues, I would tend to suspect operator-related issues as a contributing factor as well, but not in this case.

[TXGOAT2]

If you can start the engine easily with the wheels on the ground, then the clutch is disengaging as it should and the bands probably aren't dragging excessively. If the engine tends to die when you put the car in low or reverse to start moving, you probably have a tune up problem, or perhaps sticky valves. With a Ruxtel axle in low gear, it should be very easy to get the car to move from a standing start in low, reverse, or even high. A common cause of lurching and stalling when a load is applied to the engine is an ignition or fuel problem or both. The manual timing and carburetor adjustments need to be in the proper range. The engine should run smoothly on all four cylinders when a load is applied.

[TXGOAT2]

Do you have a copy of the Ford Service Manual?

[VinTin23]

Folks, thanks for the suggestions. This will keep me busy this weekend. I do have a service manual and a number of other Model T Mx and service bulletin books. They have been helpful.

[TXGOAT2]

The clutch or bands are not binding if you can start the engine easily. If you can put the hand lever in the neutral position and push the car fairly easily on level ground, the brakes are not binding. Is the carburetor adjusted one turn open? Could there be water in the carburetor bowl? Spark plugs worn, dirty, or gap too wide? Is the timer clean, oiled, and working properly? Is the wiring in good condition? Are the plug wires arranged so as to not touch anything but the plugs and not touching each other? What condition is the coil box in? Does it have a wood terminal board? Are the coils in good adjustment and making good contact with the coil box contacts? Have the coils been tested and adjusted?

[Mike Silbert]

If you want to test the drivetrain drag in low and reverse gears here is how:

Get a helper
Jack up the rear and put it up on jack stands
Remove the plugs (to eliminate compression forces)
Have the helper put the car in low and hand crank the engine. Probably best to use the neutral with the pedal and hand brake lever straight up. Make sure not to set the parking brake in the process. But also test it using the left pedal "halfway" down to check for a possible clutch link issue.
It should turn over smoothly with not much added resistance
Have the helper put the car in reverse and crank it over.
Compare the results to how it does in neutral. The engine starts so the neutral should be good.

This will rule in or rule out binding, resistance, adjustments, settings, driving style etc.
You need to separate whether it is a lack of power or an excessive drag issue.
Drag shows up if the engine is running or not.
Keep testing the answer will appear.
Mike

[TXGOAT2]

This car appears to have sat in storage for a long period of time. Has ALL old gasoline been drained from the tank in the last month or two and replaced with fresh gasoline? Has the carburetor been drained or cleaned recently? What about the gas screen? Have you checked for dirt dauber nests in the carburetor and exhaust? The fact that the engine starts up easily does not rule out a number of fuel and ignition system issues that could prevent it from making any significant power when placed under load.

[Moxie26]

Hey..…VinTin23... Was there time this weekend to apply some corrective measures???

[VinTin23]

Hey..…VinTin23... Was there time this weekend to apply some corrective measures???

Model T

Ok worked on it some more this weekend.

Engine has no coils and is converted 12v with Bosch distributor. Gas tank is clean, new fuel lines and fresh rebuilt Holley NH. Water & oil all changed and fresh.

Engine runs fine and has decent compression with a slight boost when oil added to cylinder

#1 = 50 - 55
#2 = 40 - 45
#3 = 35 - 40
#4 = 45 - 45

I believe I have found the problem. I pulled the shifter off the Ruxstell and found that the Ruckstell Gear locking notch plate (P147) was incorrectly installed. The locking screw and nuts were not installed in the slots, allowing the gear to slowly rotate.

I’ve run it on jack stands and it’s much better. Reverse still takes some work but that may just be the new wood bands or adjusting.

I’ll test drive at some point this week and let you all know how it works.