1916 Model T Roadster Value ???

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Michael Davis
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1916 Model T Roadster Value ???

Post by Michael Davis » Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:12 pm

I looked at this car today. I am wondering what it may be worth. I was asked to make an offer. The car was built in the late 70s. 1916 # engine electric start Ruxstell rear end rocky mountain brakes?, McLaren wire wheels. Owner says runs and drives great. The car has been parked for several years. I did not hear it run or drive it. Just curious what it is worth?

Thanks for any information

Mike
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Last edited by Michael Davis on Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.


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Michael Davis
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Re: 1916 Model T Roadster Value ???

Post by Michael Davis » Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:13 pm

More pics
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RajoRacer
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Re: 1916 Model T Roadster Value ???

Post by RajoRacer » Sun Sep 29, 2019 9:05 pm

Really depends on "mechanical" condition of engine/chassis & Ruckstell components - if all is in top condition I'm estimating easy $12 - 15K.

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Steve Jelf
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Re: 1916 Model T Roadster Value ???

Post by Steve Jelf » Sun Sep 29, 2019 9:33 pm

Dressed up with extra brass to look like a 1915. As Steve T says, it depends on the mechanical condition. I paid $8500 for my 1915 runabout, but it needed lots of fixing.

http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG99.html
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1915 Runabout
1923 Touring

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Jeff5015
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Re: 1916 Model T Roadster Value ???

Post by Jeff5015 » Sun Sep 29, 2019 10:03 pm

I am new to the craft. I have a 1916 Touring. I thought the wire wheels were much later. Can someone please comment on the variety in 1916?
Also, I have the '16 engine on a mount on the garage. The car has a 24 engine in it with a starter. If this car has a '16 engine with a starter how was that acomplished? Steve Jelf or Hank care to comment?

Jeff in Florida
1916 Touring


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Re: 1916 Model T Roadster Value ???

Post by Colin Mavins » Sun Sep 29, 2019 10:22 pm

16 engine with a later flywheel and a later starter hogs head a 6 volt battery that you charge at night when your not using your car.


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Re: 1916 Model T Roadster Value ???

Post by Erik Johnson » Sun Sep 29, 2019 10:46 pm

Although that car has a lot going for it such as the aftermarket wire wheels, be aware that the body is 1917 or later as the cowl has a notch in it.

It's possible that the car started life as a 1917 Ford and it has been dressed up to look like a 1915/16. Note that a block with a serial number from August through December 1916 would be in the 1917 model year.

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Re: 1916 Model T Roadster Value ???

Post by Steve Jelf » Sun Sep 29, 2019 11:25 pm

I thought the wire wheels were much later.

Yes, Ford got around to supplying wire wheels as an option in 1926 and standard in 1927. Before that there were aftermarket wire wheels made for Fords by Buffalo, Dayton, and other companies. Factory supplied wheels for 1915-1916 have rounded wood felloes and were painted body color (black). They are 30 x 3 in front and 30 x 3½ in back.

The first picture on this page shows a 1915-1916 wheel: http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG113.html
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1915 Runabout
1923 Touring


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Re: 1916 Model T Roadster Value ???

Post by art32mor » Mon Sep 30, 2019 12:13 am

So sad but very common back dated car
So value to me is parts like
Wire wheels 2500
Tires 400
Ruckstel 800
Brass rad 750
And so on add up sellable valued parts and that what maret value is plus conditions of wood body and mechanicals
From what i see in todays market
9500 or less see some pre 15 brass T's hardly pulling 12k or less simular features


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Michael Davis
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Re: 1916 Model T Roadster Value ???

Post by Michael Davis » Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:11 am

This reply is to Eric Johnson. What are you describing notch in the cowl making it a 1917?

Thanks Mike

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Re: 1916 Model T Roadster Value ???

Post by twrenn » Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:16 am

Mike...look in the 2nd pic of the 2nd bunch..right above the coil box. I noticed it too and thought "uh-oh"..another one. I have seen other 15' s for sale with the same. Happens a bit.

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Re: 1916 Model T Roadster Value ???

Post by George Mills » Mon Sep 30, 2019 12:08 pm

Do you want the car for fun...or to compete!

For fun nothing beats a roadster! They tend to delight and fast. At the right price, I'd say go for it!

What the other comments are inferring is what is a standing joke in Model T circles. Although not actually accurate, the joke is there are more 1915 Model T's today then Henry ever made! (People have been back-dating cars forever just for appearance sake) There is also the secondary confusion that original titles were for calendar year in most states and although not 100% accurate either most hold that Ford had hard feature year changes tied to their fiscal year...so, anything built in the fall of 15 would have been a '16 to them even though the original title just might have said '15. Also, in order to be part of a group called HCCA the car has to be built before December 31, 1915 and the proof is the engine number when it comes to T's.

Folks aren't trolling you, they are trying to help you avoid the pitfalls as many have been through them firsthand. Real '15's are generally worth more than '17/18's back built and a true '16 falls somewhere in between for the same 'status level' of cars.

Go to the MTFCA.com home page and look at the right side 'buttons'. Click on "encyclopedia" and then scroll to 1915...it will describe the 1915 unique features for your benefit. To see things like smooth pedals, or other features that may be year dependent you can scroll through other years.

All that said...I own a true '15 Roadster...very reasonable original miles...it was in dry storage from about 1925 to 1995...and I still sit on my stool at a meet just waiting for the local T guys to tell me what's wrong with it as its the only '15 around local now. You eventually just get to say 'Hey, thanks'. LOL

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Re: 1916 Model T Roadster Value ???

Post by TRDxB2 » Mon Sep 30, 2019 12:12 pm

The notch
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Re: 1916 Model T Roadster Value ???

Post by wayne sheldon » Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:00 pm

I debated about commenting at all on this one. Others have hit some of the important points.
One piece of advice I like to give with people new getting into the hobby, is to decide what YOU want in an antique automobile, and what do YOU want from it? The available spectrum is huge! Working on a pile of junk? The pride of turning that pile into a beautiful show-piece? Or just saving it from imminent oblivion? Maybe just a fun car to enjoy driving around town, taking the grandkids for an ice-cream? Or maybe rubbing elbows with the wealthy upper-crust? (Not generally a good reason for buying an antique car?). However, touring with the local clubs is a wonderful reason to have an antique automobile! The local clubs are usually fun, getting to know others with similar interests, help with your car if you are having issues with it. And it always amazes me how many people will not know about so many really interesting places within fifty miles of their own home. But somebody in the club does know about it, and some weekend will plan a tour to share it with the rest of the club.

Hobbyists come in all sorts of stripes. From the junk peddler all the way up to the snooty true purist. Most people are somewhere in between. However, what you want to be in that spectrum does matter in what car you may want to buy. That is especially true if you may have an interest in the Horseless Carriage Clubs. The HCCA does have some strict rules about what cars that qualify for their national meets. Some of us would actually prefer that the rules were more strict than they are. Others want the rules relaxed to encourage more membership. Local HC regional groups are allowed their own rules for local tours and events. Some are strict, others are not.

Let me say that I too am putting together a 1915 runabout. I had some misgivings about it. But my circumstances made it a good option for me. Mine (I will be quite honest about this) is NOT a true intact survivor. However, it is a real early 1915 runabout body, put together with mostly real correct for 1915 pieces. When completed, it should have more real 1915 on it than most restored "intact" '15s still have on them. (Okay, I can be a bit snooty myself!)

This car that you are looking at, is a bit of a mixture. Said to be a '16, some details would be correct for 1916 model year Ts only (rear fender). Apparently a later body, but how much later we do not know. Very close examination may or may not be able to determine that. The brass trim on the lamps is correct only for true '15 model year cars. In fact late '15 model Ts had the black trim beginning in July of 1915.
Ford made it difficult for us today. He didn't follow regular model year changes. They didn't even follow all the recorded "records of changes" that some people like to claim as gospel. Changes were made on running and an ongoing basis during production, and often the new piece and the old piece were showing up on new cars with a crossover time of several weeks to sometimes a few months! This confusion was even worse when many Ts were final assembled at any of a dozen or more branch assembly plants. Branch plants sometimes used up old parts as much a year late.

This car? Looks like a fine car that could be driven and enjoyed right from the start! It would be welcome on most tours, shows, club activities, except maybe HCCA national tours. And frankly, even there, I doubt that anyone would really question it being there. Frankly with a pre January '16 engine it would technically qualify by the basic rules. Even with several later (major) parts. Believe me. It would not be the only "'15" T with a later body, a Ruckstell (a 1920s item) and later style wire wheels on it! A lot of Ts used in the HCCA have Ruckstells, and quite a few have similar later style wire wheels. Most people in the HCCA love them that way.


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Re: 1916 Model T Roadster Value ???

Post by John kuehn » Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:29 pm

If the car is a good runner I definitely don’t think it ought to be a parts car. Whoever restored it did a pretty good job. It’s close enough for the above average T person to be an authentic T with accessories. But for some purists it’s just not right. The notch can only be seen from the inside and doesn’t distract the authenticity for me. The show car purist fanatics won’t like it but a lot of other people would. If you want it for a fun driver it’s probably a good one but beware of the purists who might start giving it the once over at a tour or club get together to throw a wet blanket over the car and declare it dead. They have been known to do that.


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Re: 1916 Model T Roadster Value ???

Post by Michael Davis » Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:50 pm

Thanks Everyone's for the input . I am going to pass on it just because I have two other T's to finish . Now the owner has an idea what to ask for it. I told him to start at $13,000.00 He can all ways come down.

Again Thanks

Mike


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Re: 1916 Model T Roadster Value ???

Post by StanHowe » Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:38 pm

I spent about 15 minutes typing this on my phone while I was having lunch and of course it wouldn't post, usually won't from my phone. However, here is my input even though you said you are going to pass on it.

I will not make an offer. I tell the seller I can't be buyer and seller both. He knows what he wants for it, he's just pimping you to see if you will offer that much or is trying to get an idea from you so he can raise the price. If he insists, I will make an offer of, say on this car, $6000 cash. He will probably be as insulted as Hell and tell you he wouldn't even think about letting it go for that. So now you know what he wants for it or at least what he won't take for it. He will 99% of the time tell you what he wants or he may take your offer. If he takes it, buy it and load it up. If he is insulted and tells you he wouldn't think about letting it go for less than $20,000 now you know you are wasting your time. Turn around and leave. If he says, "Well, that's not quite what I was hoping to get, could you do any better than that?" you now have a negotiation started and may or may not end up buying it. But at least it's a straight up deal from there on out. Also, he may turn it down tonight and talk it over with the old lady and call you in the morning telling you another $500 over your last offer will buy it. Your offer also may be more than he was hoping to get, which is what he is hoping for when he asks you to make and offer.

In my experience. They know exactly what they want for it. It may not be realistic or it may. But I am not going to spend my time insulting their car so I can make them mad, that won't get it bought any cheaper and they will think you are a cheap sob for the rest of their lives.

I've been in the auction business for almost 40 years. We've heard all the BS. The only deal is one that is backed by cash and both buyer and seller agree to.


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Re: 1916 Model T Roadster Value ???

Post by Michael Davis » Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:24 am

Thanks Stan

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Re: 1916 Model T Roadster Value ???

Post by Quickm007 » Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:09 am

I always enjoyed reading Stan. Interesting point of view which I never thought. Thank you Stan to open my mind.
Super Mario Bross ;)

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