Warford Question

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Beaver1054
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Warford Question

Post by Beaver1054 » Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:18 pm

Hello everybody
I have a cast iron Warford transmission I got for almost nothing.
I'm hoping someone can tell me what I have and if I should use it on my Speedster build.
Value your Opinion.
Thanks!!
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warford 9.JPG


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Beaver1054
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Re: Warford Question

Post by Beaver1054 » Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:24 pm

This might help identify the Warford
The shifter has a broken corner but still usable I think.
Thanks !
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Mark Gregush
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Re: Warford Question

Post by Mark Gregush » Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:48 pm

It is a 3 speed. Overdrive Direct and Underdrive. I cant see enough to tell condition of teeth and bearings. First I would do a good cleaning and inspection then I would read all the postings on mounting/installing a Cast Iron Warford. The bearings except the cone shaped one can be gotten fairly easily and I can supply the tabbed lock washer. These are a crash box and are not shifted like a modern would be. While mine is not too bad, some can be really loud. Unless you move the rear axle back, you will have to cut and shorten the driveshaft, driveshaft tube and radius rods. While there are some tricks, these can leak a lot out of the shift rod passages. I have an express wagon/huckster so bit more weight then speedster. When in underdrive can start out in Ford high but mine is hard to shift it into direct to get next speed Ford high/direct. About the only time I use overdrive is on the flat on long stretches of open road which is not often. Underdrive gives you a gear between Ford low and high. In Ford low/underdrive good for loading on trailer. Lots of people do use them in cars and speedsters.
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :roll:

1921 Huckster
1925 Cut down pickup

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RajoRacer
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Re: Warford Question

Post by RajoRacer » Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:59 pm

That's the "late" model Warford with PTO capabilities - I have one in my TT.


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Beaver1054
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Re: Warford Question

Post by Beaver1054 » Sat Nov 16, 2019 4:15 pm

Thanks Gentlemen,
Here are some pictures of the gears cleaned up. Is it worth cutting axles tubes, axle rods etc. to gain one extra gear.
Since you guys have them, is it worth the extra work?
I think I can do most of the work myself.
Having problems finding the three small springs for the shifter? (3rd picture)
Thanks Again
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Kerry
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Re: Warford Question

Post by Kerry » Sat Nov 16, 2019 4:22 pm

Do you have the front uni joint and adapter housing? I believe they are hard to find for the cast iron warfords if missing.

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Mark Gregush
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Re: Warford Question

Post by Mark Gregush » Sat Nov 16, 2019 4:51 pm

As a 3 speed box, it give you 6 speeds forward and 3 in reverse. (two in under drive, two in direct and two in over drive) I am going to say that if the bearing are anything like some of the teeth on some of those gears, you are going to end up maybe using the input shaft, tapered bearing, sliding gear shaft, case and maybe the first sliding gear and will be looking for better parts. For the most part the teeth on many are really worn. The shifting top needs to have the one hole repaired. Some of the gears and bearings can be found on Ebay others by placing ads. You should still be able build the box for less then cost of a used Ruckstell. In case you were thinking of cutting the driveshaft and welding, that is not recommended. It should be cut down, turned to size for the upper bearing, new square machined and hole for pin drilled in correct place.
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :roll:

1921 Huckster
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Mark Gregush
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Re: Warford Question

Post by Mark Gregush » Sat Nov 16, 2019 4:52 pm

That is what Hank has been covering in his tutorials on installing the cast iron Warford re the coupling.
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :roll:

1921 Huckster
1925 Cut down pickup


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Beaver1054
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Re: Warford Question

Post by Beaver1054 » Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:16 pm

Doesn't sound good.
Maybe I should stick to the basic T.
Not as simple as I hoped.
Does the warford need the extra u-joint and adapter?
I've seen pictures of them installed without the front u-joint /adapter.
Maybe a different application?
So your saying most of my gears are shot.
I appreciate your time.
I'm new at this, so one foot at a time.
Thanks!


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Re: Warford Question

Post by mtntee20 » Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:49 pm

You CAN mount a Warford directly to the transmission but it is better if you have the front universal joint and extension.

I have some extensions for sale at a very reasonable price if you need one.

Good Luck,
Terry

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Henry K. Lee
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Re: Warford Question

Post by Henry K. Lee » Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:59 pm

Steve,

The gears have some wear for sure but have seen worst. Be prepared if you use it, do some positive gear engagement. Under drive and over drive took some hits. The bearing surfaces are really important and removing the lower case races are simple if you weld two 1/2" beads 180 degrees out from each other and work quickly with a pick extractor. If the races/bearings are pitting (They are normally worst in the cast iron models due to condensation) then it will howl like a horny coyote.

Driving a T with a Warford is quite enjoyable and takes a lot of stress of the bands and your left foot. They do take practice in shifting the old ones. The new ones that KC Warford makes are Cadillacs but from my understanding at the moment he is having a problem in finding another foundry in the casting of the cases.

And you will need a rear support system too.

The bearings are not cheap. The top ones on Tbay from bearing liquidators are going for around $500.00 and the lowers around $150.00. Now you need to shorten the driveshaft, torque tube, radius rods, and install a set of accessory brakes. You can get into these mods around $2,000.00-$3,000.00 depending on your skills and access to machining equipment or friends whom like beer in lieu of payment.

I hope this helps you in your decisions. I have some copies of the original manuals in the rebuilding process if you go forward.

Thank You Mark for weighing in too!

All the Best,

Hank


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Beaver1054
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Re: Warford Question

Post by Beaver1054 » Sat Nov 16, 2019 7:04 pm

Thanks Henry,
I plan to continues with the build.
I have plenty of time to pick and choose the replacement parts.
But I have received a lot of junk off e-bay.
Hard to trust people when they don't have the courtesy to wipe the grease off
the part before they sale it.
Thanks Again!!

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Re: Warford Question

Post by Henry K. Lee » Sat Nov 16, 2019 7:20 pm

Steve,

There are a lot of people with no souls, values, or ethics. Not me, if you require help, I am here for guidance, etc. Sorry you got a raw deal, been there done that too.

All the Best,

Hank


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Re: Warford Question

Post by SurfCityGene » Sun Nov 17, 2019 3:01 am

Beaver, I've looked at those gears several times. I've seen a good number of Warfords and I would not have any problems running those gears from what I can see. You'll find a wide range in price for the bearings all of which are available EXCEPT the small center cone bearing, Treat it like Gold.
I run an alum one for that last 5000 miles and have rebuilt a few with tricks to make them leak free if you stay under 60. Mine was pretty noisy when I first installed years ago and now runs pretty quite. With a little experience the shifting gets pretty easy with only an occasional grind before the rpm sync. A downshift into underdrive is best done at very slow speeds.

I can tell you that those gears are made of some very good material and withstand a lot of abuse. I've had a couple times where I panic shifted mine and years later the teeth still look OK and no chips or evidence in the oil.

It wasn't mentioned before but you will want some outside/aftermarket brakes with this addition to your car. Stuck in neutral freewheeling is not fun!

I think you've got some very good bones here if you can figure out the install issues that was discussed in an earlier thread. Google Warford MTFCA you'll find a lot of info as well.

Good Luck You'll love it
1912 Torpedo Roadster


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Beaver1054
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Re: Warford Question

Post by Beaver1054 » Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:57 pm

Thanks Gene
Thanks for the inspirational words.
I agree, I've seen worse gears than mine for sale on ebay.
Not sure what to make of the price difference on the bearings.
Some are asking almost $500. for one set of bearings.
Later!!

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Henry K. Lee
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Re: Warford Question

Post by Henry K. Lee » Sun Nov 17, 2019 1:23 pm

Use only quality like Timken, stay away from junk from China. Those cheaper bearings fail big time.

Just speaking from experiences,

Hank


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Beaver1054
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Re: Warford Question

Post by Beaver1054 » Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:24 pm

One other thing Please
Does anyone have a source for the small springs in the shifter rods?
The springs that provide tension to the ball bearings to lock the shifter rods in place?
Springs I found are to large to fit or to weak.
Thanks again!!

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Mark Gregush
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Re: Warford Question

Post by Mark Gregush » Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:37 pm

I think I got mine at ACE. I just looked for ones with a free length, wire size, diameter and number of turns that was close. If need be, if they are shorter/less turns you could add a spacer under the cap to get the tension to hold the balls in the slots. You want them strong enough to keep the balls in place but not so much they wear the rods.
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :roll:

1921 Huckster
1925 Cut down pickup

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