OIL IS CHEAP

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Richard G
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OIL IS CHEAP

Post by Richard G » Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:25 pm

OIL IS CHEAP, THINK OF IT IN THIS WAY, ITS LIFE GIVING FLUID [BLOOD] TO WHAT EVER ITS USED IN OR ON, TO KEEP THINGS RUNNING COOL AND SEPARATED BY A THIN LAYER OF LUBRICANT , TRULY AMAZING STUFF, YEARS AGO A WAY TO KEEP THIS FLUID CLEAN WAS TO ADD A TYPE OF WAX TO THE OIL, THIS WAX WOULD HEAT WITH THE OIL AND TRAP MOST OF THE PRODUCT OF COMBUSTION, AND WHEN AT REST THIS WOULD ALLOW THIS COLLECTION TO SETTLE TO THE BOTTOM OF THE PAN. SOME OF THE LARGER MOTORS HAD A SCREEN THAT ALLOWED THE OIL TO STRAIN THROUGH KEEPING THE SLUDGE TRAP'D ON THE SCREEN, WE USED TO REMOVE THE PAN ONCE A YEAR TO CLEAN THIS CRUD OUT. OTHERS HAD NO WAY TO FILTER, MODEL T BEING ONE OF THEM, OTHER THAN CHANGE THE OIL OFTEN ,MANY THINGS WERE TRIED TO HELP PREVENT THIS BUILD UP OF CRUD, ONE WAS DRAIN THE OIL DUMP IN A GALLON OF KEROSENE RUN THE ENGINE A SHORT TIME DRAIN IT REFRESH WITH NEW OIL, TOUGH ON THEM POOR OLD ENGINES , GUESS WHAT I'M SAYING IS IF YOU FEEL PROBLEMS ARE HAPPENING IN THAT DEPARTMENT DUE TO CONTAMINATION, GET THAT OLD OIL OUT OF THERE, OIL IS CHEAPER THAN METAL. A FEW SHORT YEARS AGO THE RECOMANDATION WAS TO CHANGE THE OIL AND FILTER EVERY 2500 TO 3000 MI .WITH TO DAYS H-D-OIL AND FILTRATION SYSTEMS ,ONE CAN EXPECT TO RUN A ENGINE UNTOLD MILES,


Peter, Memphis TN
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Re: OIL IS CHEAP

Post by Peter, Memphis TN » Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:19 pm

This is not particularly relevant to Model T engines, but more for general information.

Years ago a friend who works for a tow-boat company, who said his company's boats could be recognized by their sound, as they sound just like diesel locomotives - because they use the same engine - told me of their experimentation with synthetic oils.

Their quest was prompted by the difficulty of changing the engine oil on a regular basis. Since the engine is located in the bilge of the boat, draining the oil as one normally would do, is not feasible. They had to suck the oil out, knowing that it was not the best way to do it, since the heavier crud that settled to the bottom of the sump would not be removed. This would be proven when they removed the engine for periodic total overhaul, and find massive amounts of hard stuff in the bottom of the engine.

When synthetic oil became available, they decided to test it. They selected a newly-overhauled engine, and put it in to service with synthetic oil. They took samples and had them analyzed on a regular basis, which showed no ill effects. They kept the engine and oil in service until the time for the total overhaul, which was several years and several thousand hours, simply changing the filters on the times when they would normally suck out the oil and put in new.

What they found, was a perfectly clean engine, and only minimal wear on bearing surfaces. Their shop mechanics did everything they could to figure out how the administration had rigged the test, convinced it was a plot to cut down on the need for shop mechanics. They couldn't find any evidence.

Since that time, the company has used exclusively synthetic oil in their towboats (and company cars, etc.). They change the filters regularly, and add just enough oil to replace what was soaked into the filters (each engine used a bank of 4 cylindrical filters, each about the size of your arm). And, they NEVER change the oil, between total overhauls.

As I said, this may not be pertinent to our Model T's, but it certainly is to our modern cars. Since he told me this story, I have used Mobil 1 oil in my Expedition, Escape, and the two cars that preceded them. I do change the oil regularly, but not on the 3000 mile routine shown in the manual. Rather, I change the oil and filter after 7500 miles, and I use the best filters I can find. Since I have aged to the point of not wanting to change it myself, I go to a 10-minute place, and I ask the guy in the pit to tell me what the oil looks like, coming out. Several of them have said that it was so clean that they wondered why I was having it changed.

I've never used synthetic in my Model T. Not because of the cost, or because I don't think it would do as good or better job than petroleum oil, but because what they pump in is cheap, and the guys at the 10-minute place get such a kick out of having me drive it in, they normally don't even charge me. It's always fun when they try to get the "new guy" to go into the pit, and goad him into finding the oil filter. Another reason I don't use it in the T is that synthetic tends to be thinner than petroleum oil, and my T already 'marks its territory' with drips, and I think it might get worse.

Just thought you'd like to know, since this thread is about oil.


halftracknut
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Re: OIL IS CHEAP

Post by halftracknut » Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:48 pm

I too run Mobil 1 in my car and truck....several years ago I thought a can of STP would help my "T" ...wrong...it would not even pull itself one inch. The STP was so slick the bands would not grab. I had to go the kerosene flush route and it was fine after a five gallon flush...just thought I would throw that in....

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Richard G
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Re: OIL IS CHEAP

Post by Richard G » Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:18 pm

PETE AND RANDY, PETE ,SYNTHETIC OIL IS VERY HIGH IN DETERGENT PROPERTY, SHOULD NEVER BE USED IN A UN FILTERED ENGINE, AS IT KEEPS ALL IMPUREIT'YS IN SUSPENTION,WITH OUT A FILTER ALL THIS IS PUMPED THROUGH THE SYSTEM TO WARE ALL MOVING PARTS , THAT'S WHERE A GOOD MICRO FILTER COMES IN, SOMETHING A T DON'T HAVE, PLUS THE FACT IT HAS A SLIP AFFECT ON BANDS, YOU HAVE TO PUSH HARDER ON THAT PEDAL FOR THE BAND TO GRAB THE HUB, IT HAS TO STOP ITS ROTATION AND ALLOW THE GEARING TO DO ITS THING .YOU WONT GET A GEAR GRINDING SOUND FROM A T, JUST THE SLIPPING OF THE BAND,THE GEARING IN THE T TRANSMISSION IS IN CONSTANT MESH, SLIPPING WILL CAUSE OVER HEATING AND CAUSE A CRACK. [USE THE RIGHT PRODUCT TO FIT THE JOB] IF YOUR TRANSMISSION HAS THE NEWER STYLE HARD BANDING THERE WILL BE OTHER PROBLEMS IN TIME, IN MY DAY THERE WAS WOOD AND COTTON , TEAMED WITH[ NON] DETERGENT OILS,AND OVER TIME WE LEARNED WHAT TO DO WITH WHAT WE HAD TO WORK WITH, AS TIME WENT ON THINGS GOT CHANGED AND WE STARTED USING MORE MODERN STUFF THAT WORKED FOR MORE MODERN STUFF, BUT NOT ALWAYS GOOD FOR OLE LIZ. I'M SHURE THIS SPEAL WILL GET SOME INTERESTING COMMENT'S ,AND I WELCOME THEM , I'M SPEAKING WITH OVER 75 YEARS UNDER MY BELT.[ DON'T TRY TO MAKE LIZ INTO SOMETHING SHE NEVER WAS OR NEVER WILL BE,SHE IS JUST A VERY ENJOYABLE PILE OF TIN. BLESS YOU RANDY, YOU HAD TO DO JUST WHAT IT TAKES TO CLEAR UP WHAT THE MODERN STUFF CAUSED. A HINT I LEARNED IN BUILDING ENGINES, AFTER HONING THE BORE'S WIPE THEM OUT WITH A RAG SOAKED IN ATF, DON'T BE AFRAID TO DO IT TILL ALL IS CLEAN.ATF WILL GRAB ALL THE CHINKING'S ,WHAT ITS DESIGNED TO DO.


tdump
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Re: OIL IS CHEAP

Post by tdump » Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:32 pm

Last I heard about a quick lube place in Concord NC a fellow took his car in to get the oil changed.He then checked it when he got home to just to make sure it was filled.The color was dark,like it had not been changed.
He went back and argued that the oil had not been changed,it was still dark.
The response," We use reycled oil so it will not be as clear as virgin oil".
Way I figure it, if oil of ANY sort is poured into a object transparent,and comes out dark and cant see thru it,there must be SOMETHING else in that oil Besides what came in it.
I never used synth oil until I got my 04 dodge a couple years ago.According to the maintance records it had be run with Mobil 1 for most if not all of it's life from new to the 88,000 miles it had on it.So I run it. Seems to work fine,I change it every 3500 miles. Sorry, old habits are hard to break.And it comes out darker than it went in.

I just changed the oil in the TT and it was dark .I used the Walmarts 30W non degerant oil in it.I guess it is better than what was in it when new.
If you can't help em, don't hinder em'

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FreighTer Jim
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Perspective

Post by FreighTer Jim » Tue Jan 07, 2020 1:53 pm

Not (16) quarts of Mobil Turbo Diesel oil and a Mobil 1 Synthetic oil filter when I change the oil & filter in my F350 PSD ..... 🙄


FJ

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RustyFords
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Re: OIL IS CHEAP

Post by RustyFords » Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:11 pm

Back when I was teaching high school chemistry in a suburb north of Houston....back when Royal Purple was still a family owned company, the owner’s son was a student of mine.

He arranged for his classmates and me to take a very comprehensive tour of their facility. We even got to see the R&D lab and the QC lab. I won’t bore you with the details but it was eye opening to say the least.

They showed us comparisons of other oils (conventional and synthetic) and the only synthetic at the time that performed anywhere near as well as RP was Mobil 1. Everything else wasn’t even in the ballpark...in any category. The conventionals were frighteningly bad.

Not long after, I bought a new Chevy Blazer with a 4.3L V6 and ran Royal Purple in it until I finally sold it years later...with 385,000 miles on it...still a good running car.

This isn’t to say you should use it in your T though. It’s just something interesting that this chemist experienced more that two decades ago.
Last edited by RustyFords on Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Topic author
Richard G
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Re: OIL IS CHEAP

Post by Richard G » Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:32 pm

MACK, YOU ARE DOING WHATS BEST FOR YOUR FORD, AND IT LOVES YOU FOR IT. HAVE YOU EVER HEARD THEY BUILT A FILTER SYSTEM THAT SITS UNDER THE INSPECTION PLATE ON THE TRANSMISSION ? THIS DON'T DO ANY THING TO CLEAN THE OIL BUT IT SWEEPS OUT JUST ABOUT EVERY THING THAT FLOATS, AND THERE IS A MAGNET THAT CAPTURES METAL FILINGS TOO. THIS IS THE BEST THING YOU CAN DO FOR OLE LIZ, OTHER THAN CHANGING THE OIL OFTEN. ONE CAN DRAPE A GOOD THICK HUNK OF FELT OVER A FUNNEL AND STRAIN THE USED OIL THROUGH THAT, DISCOLORATION IN OIL IS NOT HARMFUL, ITS THE GRIT THAT'S THE PROBLEM. I RUN SHELL ROTILLA 15-40-IN EVERY THING BUT MY T, IT GETS THE CHEAP N-D-30, WHY ROTILLA?--i like Freighter Jim PUT ON THE MILES, [USE TO] BETTER THAN HALF ARE LOADED MILES, SOME OF THE HILLS WE CLIME IT FEELS LIKE THE DRIVESHAFT IS TRYING TO PUSH THE CRANKSHAFT THROUGH THE RADIATOR, LOTS OF FRICTION HERE, OIL CAN DO ITS JOB UNDER THESE CONDITIONS BUT NOT WHEN THERE IS MINUTE FILINGS WITHIN, MOBIL-1- IS TOP OF THE LINE--BUT NONE OF IT IS ANY GOOD WITHOUT THE FILTER, I HAD TWO NITE DRIVERS SO MY RIG WAS ON THE ROAD 24--7- ONLY TIME THE ENGINE WAS OFF WAS WHEN WE WERE UNLOADING , AND THAT TOOK ABOUT 45 MINS, WHEN I PULLED THE DIP STICK I COULD SEE THROUGH THE OIL TO THE STICK. I ALWAYS RUN A LUBE REFINER ON MY RIGS THIS KEPT THE OIL IN CONDITION. COME TO THINK O IT HAS ANY ONE HEARD FROM J-P-NOONAN, IVE NOT SEEN HIM IN HERE LATELY, HOPE ALL IS WELL.I USED TO CHASE HIM UP 93 MANY A DAY, CAUSE HIS RIG HAD SOME POWER,COULD NOT GET BY HIM..

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Too Slippery ?

Post by FreighTer Jim » Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:22 pm

Can oil be “ too slippery ? “ .... 🧐

Based upon my experience - yes.

I used to run Royal Purple 75/140 gear oil in my rear differential of my F350 but I have come to believe that a certain amount of friction is not only acceptable but necessary for proper lubrication.

Basically the oil needs to remain on the parts being lubricated.

In my E4OD automatic transmission I used to add Lubeguard whenever I serviced the transmission.

Now I just use Valvoline Full Synthetic ATF
with no additives.

Synthetic oils lubricate better and hold up to heat longer than conventional oils.


FJ

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