WTB: 30X3.5 Rims

[Scott C.]

After fighting with the new reproduction rims that I bought for my 25 RPU, I am thinking that I need to go with original rims. I would like to buy some good Hayes, or Ford style 30 x3.5 rims.

[Allan]

Scott, they are not interchangeable on all felloes. Ford rims will fit hayes felloes but Hayes rims will only fit Hayes felloes. You need to be aware of the felloes you have.

Allan from down under.

[Scott C.]

I think I have Hayes felloes but am not 100% sure. I have not been able to find anything that clearly shows the differences.

[Allan]

If they are Hayes felloes, Hayes and Ford rims will fit. I have Hayes wire wheels on two of my cars and have seen Hayes wheels on Overland cars. Both had rolled in outer edges on the felloes, and wider rolled out inner edges on which the rims wedge. Someone posted photos of a Hayes felloe with straight up outer edges on the felloe, NO roll in. Here in Australia I have only ever seen that style on 21" wheels. If you have 23" wheels with a straight up outer edge, that edge will have a cut-out section at each bolt hole to accommodate the foot on the Hayes lugs. On my Hayes wire wheel felloes with the rolled in outer edges, there is a depression in that rolled in edge to accommodate the felloe.
Photos would help those familiar with US wheels would help.

Allan from down under

[CudaMan]

If you were fighting with the repro rims because the last rim bolt was hard or impossible to install, be aware that they lack a feature that original rims had. The rim bolt hole closest to the valve stem hole is oblong on original rims to allow some play to get all of the rim bolts in.

You can easily add that feature to your repro rims with a decent size rat tail file, that's what I did on mine and it worked great.

[Adam]

If you were fighting with the repro rims because the last rim bolt was hard or impossible to install, be aware that they lack a feature that original rims had. The rim bolt hole closest to the valve stem hole is oblong on original rims to allow some play to get all of the rim bolts in.

You can easily add that feature to your repro rims with a decent size rat tail file, that's what I did on mine and it worked great.

I think that people are misunderstanding this “feature” of the ovaled out hole in the lug nearest the valve stem.

T felloes originally had the rim bolts swedged into the back of the felloe in such a way that the bolts weren’t easily removable. When using the original style metal valve stem (which is not flexible), the ovaled out lug nearest the valve stem allowed you to insert the valve stem into the felloe and then swing the rim over the lugs.

If your rim bolts are removable from your felloes, you don’t need the ovaled lug. You simply put the rim on the felloe, then insert the four bolts from the back. If the four holes don’t line up, then your felloe is distorted OR the rim is distorted OR MADE INCORRECTLY.

[Scott C.]

Here are pictures of 2 of my felloes.

[Allan]

Thanks for the photos Scott. They tell an interesting story. My belief is that the top one is not a Hayes felloe but is relieved at the bolt holes so a Hayes rim will ffit.prehaps this is a factory modification to allow rims to be mixed and matched.

The second photo shows the depression in the rolled in lip to allow a Hayes rim with the foot on the lug to be fitted. This is just how my Hayes wire wheels are made. But I think yours is a standard felloe with the depression added later to accept a Hayes rim. It lacks a sharp transition from the depression to the normal land on the felloe edge.

If you look closely, the top photo shows a wider land on the inside edge of the felloe than that on the lower photo. That wider land is where lugged rims wedge onto the felloe.

The lower photo does not have that same wide inner land which leads me to think that it is an earlier felloe. On these the rims are designed to wedge on the outer edge of the felloe. Is there a depressed slot on the inside diameter of the felloe, adjacent to each bolt hole? If so, that felloe is meant to take loose lug rims. With the depression worked into it, a Hayes lugged rim will fit, but it will not wedge on the narrower inner land on the felloe. Instead, it will wedge on the outer land.
Hope I have made sense.

Allan from down under

[RajoRacer]

Here's a stamped Hayes rim - straight sided though.

[Scott_Conger]

Scott

both of those wheels are as they were made at the factory. There are no post-manufacture alterations which can be seen in the photos.

Period Hayes and/or Ford 2845B rims will fit either felloe as they were designed to be interchangeable. My experience has been that 100% of Hayes rims fit either felloe perfectly, while some FORD rims fit both/either felloes though the fit sometimes isn't as great. The Hayes rolled bead is a bit more forgiving than the FORD sharp knife-edge.

[Scott C.]

I see what you are saying about the way that second felloe appears to be modified. I will take a closer look at it. That is the one that the rim wobbles more than I like. I will also look at the other rear felloe and confirm what type it is. I think it is the same as the top one. I have not messed with the other front one. It is setting where I can't get to it until I move the truck.

I am starting to think that I might need to find a complete set if matching wheels. Or at least a matching set of felloes.

[Allan]

The two felloes are definitely different. The one with the wider inner land is the more usual for fixed lug rims. Only our later 1925 models had fixed lug rims and that wide inner land on which the rim is wedged.

The other rim you show has the narrower inner land as found on our loose lug rims. On that felloe the rim wedges on the outer rolled in land on the felloe so there is no need for the wide inner land. My son and I made that same modification to accept Chev Hayes rims on his 10 cwt lorry with oversized tyres. On factory Hayes felloes, the depression shows clear delineation at each end, and the outer face is not rolled in like it appears to be on your felloe.

Allan from down under.

[Scott_Conger]

Scott

on your 2nd picture, you may wish to believe the "mashed" area is modified, but I assure you it is not modified; that's how it came from the factory. I am in the process of restoring a '23 runabout with those exact "mashed" felloes. They are Hayes felloes.

with respect to rim wobbles where the felloe does not wobble: one source of wobble is due to the car rolling on the felloe without a rim on it. This will flatten out the flange on the back side almost imperceptibly where the rim will NOT seat onto it, or if the flat spot is only partially around the wheel, the rim will go on cockeyed. If your lugs on your rim are seated hard on the felloe when tightened down, that is one indication that the rim is going on too far because the back flange is not wedging the rim soon enough.

wheels are one part of a t that are often overlooked or misunderstood, resulting in a horrendous mish-mash of hardware and it seems the lion's share of t's suffer from this. I personally discount the price of a "for sale t" by $500-$1000 if the wheels/felloes do not match

here are more wheels (pix snagged from the Forum, not mine) that the same guy "modified" if they're modified - and of course, they're not...

[Scott_Conger]

Finally, here is a picture and a link to it, which show cross sections of original, matched, felloe/rim combinations that came on FORD cars: app.php/gallery/image/169

Note: the "B" configurations were considered fully interchangeable

be aware that Firestone and others manufactured their own felloes/rims, too, and some are a perfect match to Hayes and Ford, and some are just a fair match, though I'll bet they were intended to be interchangeable simply for the benefit of sales.

[Allan]

Scott, I note that the drawings show just one difference in the felloe cross section. One of them has the straight up outer edge, like the Hayes rim photo posted earlier. The drawings do not show any difference in the inner lands of the felloes. In my experience fixed lug rims wedge on a wider inner land, like the one on Scott's top photo. Hayes rims, and others all have this wide land when fixed lug rims are involved.

Our Kelsey loose lug felloes have bothered outer and inner lands of the same width and the rims wedge on the outside land. There is no need for the wider inner land.

The lower of Scott's photos looks like it has the narrow inner land, unless I am mistaken. If it is a narrower land, and it has the relief for a Hayes lug foot, it is a hybrid the likes of which I have never seen.

Allan from down under.

[Scott_Conger]

Allan, if you ever make it to Wyoming, I will show you 4 more, the likes of which you've never seen

and then after that, I'll treat you to a short trip over to Yellowstone to see geysers and other natural wonders, the likes of which you've never seen

[Scott C.]

Here are picture of the felloes. If I am looking correctly at that chart, the cross section of the top one appears to be a Hayes. The bottom one appears to a Ford. That coincides with what Scott has stated. But contradicts Steves picture. Is Steve's wheel a Ford, or a Hayes? or, is chart wrong?

[Scott C.]

OK, I beat 4 rims on, off and back on one of the felloes then checked the runout. Then I moved on to another felloe and repeated the same. One rim will not go onto any of the felloes. Here is where I am now. I have 4 rims mounted on the truck. The worst runout is about 1/4" at the side wall of the tires. Is that acceptable?

On that Hayes type felloe, I noticed the flange was not up against the rim in a couple of spots. I used an adjustable wrench to bend the wheel flange up and out. That did the trick on that wheel. I think you are right that it may have been rolled around on the felloes at some time.

I am now thinking that I have 3 Ford type felloes and 1 Hayes. The old rims are just the opposite, 1 Ford and 3 Hayes.

I hope to get it out of the barn and take it for a drive in the morning.

[Allan]

Thanks for the invite Scott. We were planning another trip to the USA when our elder son developed the condition which has him disabled and under 24 hour round the clock care, so we will not be making extended trips like that any more. We have been to Yellowstone, experienced traffic and critter jams during the summer holidays, and saw the regeneration results of the fires, lodgepole pines as thick as flees on a dog, looking like some kind of unkempt lawn. Give me the Grand Canyon in late February, no cars, lots of critters and a light dusting of snow to highlight rock strata.

Perhaps you could make our National Tour in Ballarat in late September, 2025, and I could show you a thing or two and the wildlife and scenery on Kangaroo Island.

Cheers, Allan.

[Adam]

On that Hayes type felloe, I noticed the flange was not up against the rim in a couple of spots. I used an adjustable wrench to bend the wheel flange up and out. That did the trick on that wheel.

If there was no tire on the rim, you could take that rim back off that wheel, give it a quarter or half turn, and see if it still fits good. If it doesn’t, then the rim is a fault. (Maybe deflate the tire and press the stem in).

[Scott C.]

I have driven it around a bit and the rims seem to be working fine. I finally heard back from Steve and he is in the process of making me a replacement for the one that does not fit.

I noticed that I have some spokes that are getting loose. I think I might need to find a set of wheels and rebuild them.