WTB Steering Column for 1912

[Distagon2]

Looking for a 1912 Steering Column, preferably complete in restored or decent restorable condition. Contact me at eight zero three, two two six, six four three two. Or email at Distagon2 at aol dot com.

[JTT3]

Knobbed or flat thatched tapered

[Distagon2]

John-

Looking for the knobbed. However if someone has even a 13 column in at least decent shape I could install the earlier levers. (Of all the Model T jobs, I think restoring the steering column is the job I hate the most.)

Thanks,
Greg

[Distagon2]

I plan to go to Luray next month, too, so if I can't scare one up before then maybe I will strike gold at Luray.

[JTT3]

So check you’re build date if you’re trying to be precise, if I’m not mistaken last part of 12 model into 13 the levers were flat thatched & tapered

[Sarikatime]

Can anyone provide a picture of the different steering columns and when they were produced or I the cars. I have no idea what I have in my 12 but it would be nice if I knew.

[Distagon2]

My engine number is 86076 so was a late 11 build date. Therefore, it would have used the "knob type" levers on the steering column, i.e., the hard rubber balls on the end of the spark and throttle lever.

[Tbird]

The lower mounting flange is different as well. It went from a cast piece to a stamped piece.

[JTT3]

Mike didn’t the mounting flange angle change too?

[Fire_chief]

Also, the hole pattern in the lower flange is different.

[Allan]

I don''t know about the cast piece. The bottom flange on mine is made of two pieces. There is an inner heavier pressing, over which a lighter pressed metal housing is crimped. This housing extends further up the column than the later one piece housings.

Allan from down under.

[Tbird]

Mike didn’t the mounting flange angle change too?

Yes. In 12 It was mounted 3/4” lower on the firewall which required a new steering bracket and steering column flange to make the correct angle. It’s very important to have the correct parts for your steering setup.

[Tbird]

My engine number is 86076 so was a late 11 build date. Therefore, it would have used the "knob type" levers on the steering column, i.e., the hard rubber balls on the end of the spark and throttle lever.

If you have a late 11 build date then the column that you should have is the one with 4 holes all the same not with the offset. The offset one showed up about mid 1912 with the one piece dash.

[Tbird]

Can anyone provide a picture of the different steering columns and when they were produced or I the cars. I have no idea what I have in my 12 but it would be nice if I knew.

Frank here’s some interesting information about early steering columns
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/8 ... 1241151952

[Sarikatime]

Mike, thank you for the reference discussion clarification. I have seen and sat in Bryan’s 10 touring but never really looked close at the steering column. My column had 1/4 inch hex head bolts securing the column to the one piece firewall when I bought the 12 towncar. I guess I will be changing them out to brass. I love the authenticity of my towncar but have never tried to dwell into extreme details on factory correctness. I spoke to Scott Rosenthal many times while restoring my towncar and followed his example on many details but some things I appearantly did not pay attention to as much as I should have. I learn something new constantly.

[Jones in Aiken SC]

Wow have I learned something by posting this ad. (I changed my user name, used to be Distagon2). A lot of variety in the early brass era steering columns. I would be happy to find just the bare tube-the early shorter one with equidistant mounting holes. I can build it from there.

[RGould1910]

Greg, the late calendar year 11 builds used a shorter steering column than the mid year 12s. Mine is a Dec 11 build and has the 11 length column, 23 1/2". It's original to the car. The mid year 12 used a 25 1/2" column.

[TRDxB2]

From the MTFCA Encyclopedia
STEERING COLUMN
1909-1910
3500 (T900). (Cars under 34,600, December 19, 1910) 50” long. Brass gear housing was a riveted assembly with the column fitting. Brass quadrant. Levers brass-plated with black hard-rubber knobs. The pitman arm was oval in cross-section, and shorter than the later types used with the two-piece spindles. (The first 2500 cars apparently used a shorter and straighter piman arm than that used on the post-2500 cars.)
1911
3500C (T5005). Now 56” long but similar to 1910.
3500B (T900B). For Town Cars, 51” length.
3500D (T979). For Torpedo Runabouts, 60” length.
1912-1914
3500C (T5005). 56” long, on all cars. A new design, the column was mounted 3/4” lower at the firewall than in 1911, requiring a new steering bracket and a change in the angle of the column mounting flange. Retained was the brass quadrant and riveted gear case. 1912 was the last year for the hard-rubber spark and throttle knobs. These were eliminated during 1912 and the ends of the brass-plated control rods were flattened for “handles.” Around 1913 the lower mounting flange was changed from a forging to pressed metal.
1915
3500C (T5042). The 1914 column seems to have been used in very early production, with some overlap when both the old and new types appeared at the same time. The new gear case was now one-piece rather than riveted design. Quadrant was pressed steel, painted black, apparently introduced during 1914 production. The gear case was polished bronze, not plated. The cover was much flatter than previous cone-shaped type. Levers were steel with the flattened ends now smaller and somewhat round, and brass-plated (although some black-painted rods seem original).
Factory Blueprints indicate that the new one-piece gear case was approved on September 5, 1914. On September 18, 1914 the steering gear quadrant was redesigned. The new quadrant was made from cold-rolled steel and was to be brass plated. Early types of the steel quadrant were made with the serrated edge folded up, somewhat in the manner of the earlier design. September drawings show the later type (without the fold). There may have been two versions of the earlier design quadrant; one made of brass and the other of steel. Both are shown on the blueprint.
The horn wire tube was adopted on January 29, 1915 but it wasn�t until October 8, 1915 that this tube was adopted for all production.
1915-1917
Similar to previous type but small tube added for horn wire. Horn switch mounted on the top surface, just below the steering wheel. The horn bulb, when used, clamped to the column. Quadrant was painted black. Factory blueprint, dated February 26, 1916, indicates that the horn wire was changed from a tube to a steel stamping, welded to the column
NOTE: The brass plating of the rods was only at the top and levers, not the entire length of the rods.
1917-1919
Gear case now bronze and nickel-plated. However, a blueprint dated July 14, 1916 specifies that the case was to be “finished black” and then on September 9, 1916 it was to be “Moodyize”(?) and black enamel. Still later, June 14, 1917, the case was to be nickel plated. During 1919 the planet gears were specified to be 14-pitch with a 20-degree pressure angle.
Levers nickel-plated at the top, with shorter flattened ends. The quadrant was changed from brass plated to black enameled. The gear case cover changed from bronze to steel, nickel plated.
The wire tube was made larger to accept light wires. In late 1917 the horn button was now a two-function type with fluted sides. Turning it operated the lights. The button now mounted in a housing on the left side of the column, where it remained for the remainder of Model T production.
1919-1920
During 1919 the finish was specified as zinc plated and buffed (instead of nickel). Shortly later the cover finish was changed back to nickel, and in 1920 the case itself was again nickled. This finish continued, according to factory blueprints, until sometime in 1926. The spark and throttle rods were also changed to zinc plated at the handles, and black painted below, and remained this way until July 26, 1926 the blueprint.
1921-1922
3500C (T5044). Similar in appearance to 1920 but a longer pin was used for one of the planetary gears. This pin extended down into a groove milled in the case to act as a stop, preventing the steering going “over center.”
1922-1925
Similar to 1917 but horn button no longer doubled as the light switch on non-starter cars. (Dash board with switch was now standard.) Column support bracket (to instrument panel) added in 1924. Gear ratio changed to 5:1 in Late 1924 (1925 models) when balloon tires were introduced.
1926-1927
3500D (T5044B). Similar in style to earlier but now had flange to mate with new body types.
The Assembly and Change letters from the home plant to the branches has been a rich source of information on how Model T�s were built in the �20�s. In several of these letters the home plant advised the branches not to paint the lower part of the steering column that was beneath the hood. The idea being that if the parts were painted, customers would not be able to see the quality steel that was used in the construction of these columns.

STEERING GEAR CASE
1909-1914
A good number of minor modifications were made in the steering gear case, as noted in the evolution notes below. Basically the 1909-1914 gear case was of the “two-piece” type, with the upper (gear part) riveted to the lower part which was riveted to the steering column. The top cover was somewhat cone-shaped rather than flat as on the later design.
1914-1927
During 1914 the older riveted-type gear case was superseded with a new design which was to remain somewhat standard until the end of Model T production in 1927. The 1914-1916 cases (P/N 3507, F/N T5029) were bronze and polished. In 1916 the brass era ended and the steering case was then nickel plated to suit the new styling. In 1919 the nickel plate was replaced with polished zinc plate, and this finish continued until sometime in 1926 when nickel plating was again used. The part number remained the same but the new factory number was T5036. Listed below are the factory drawing change dates and modifications. The descriptions are exact quotes unless otherwise indicated.


STEERING GEAR CASE EVOLUTION
(Factory blueprint dates, not the date of use)
12-26-07 Adopted
02-17-10 Change threads on tap for clamping screw from 6-32 to 6-32 “V.”
06-13-11 Added note on drawing to be tinned and sweated to T905A or B. (The steering case bushing)
11-10-11 Changed diameter of hole in bottom from 25/32” to .780-.781” ream.
05-21-12 Changed style of threads in tap for steering gear cover lock screw from 6-32 “V” to 6-32 ASME.
07-08-12 Changed the thickness of the bottom from 5/32 to 5/32-11/64”
02-14-13 We have specified that the countersink in rivet holes reach clear through to the bottom of the case, also that the angle to be 25 degrees. Our attention has been called to dimension specifying the diameter of rivet holes at the bottom to be .157 which is the diameter of a #22 drill, which undoubtedly will be used in drilling these holes before countersinking.
04-07-14 CHW (Wills) advised GVH (Howard) to change specifications on T904 (the steering gear case) from “Z” bronze to “X” bronze.
04-24-14 Changed diameter at top of gear teeth from 2.428” to 2.427-2.428.”
07-02-14 Changed depth of case on inside from 1-1/8” to 1.122 and 1.128” and diameter of pocket in bottom of cover from 2-1/8” to 2.122-2.124.”
07-24-14 Changed diameter of counterbore in the bottom for steering case bushing from 2.122-2.124 to 2.125-2.126.”
09-05-14 We have adopted this experimental design and will consider it as a change in the design of the old steering gear part. (Apparently this is the new style gear case, but there is no previous reference to this change.)
12-09-15 Changed style of thread from USS to USF.
07-14-16 This case differs from the regular only that it is made out of cast steel instead of “W” bronze, and is to be raven finished and black enameled.
07-14-16 Removed note which specified drawing to be experimental, and called for use on 1917 cars. Changed material from cast steel to “W” bronze. Removed note which called for raven finish and black enamel, and specified case to be finished black. Experimental drawings were issued under date of 7-14-16, so we will consider it as adopted that date.
(It would appear that the steel case was either never made, or just experimental.)
09-09-16 Removed note which specified case to be finished black and called for Moodyize, and black enamel. This change is to take immediate effect. All cases on hand to be used up.
04-04-17 Specified this part for use on Model H truck, 1917.
(Note the reference to Model “H.” Apparently the “TT” designation came later.)
05-22-17 Specified for use on all cars 1915-16-17, instead of 1917 only. (This part replaces T5029).
06-14-17 Brought drawing up to date by specifying this case to be nickel plated, instead of Moodyized and black enamel.
09-04-17 Specified for use on 1918 cars.
05-05-19 Specified this part to be zinc plated all over, and buffed as shown in the drawing, instead of nickel plated.
10-17-19 Changed the pitch of gear teeth on the above part from 14 to 14-18 with 20 degree pressure angle. This change is made to reduce friction between gears and is to take effect as soon as the change can be made without holding up production. The parts on hand to be balanced and used up. Note: Owing to the wear on these parts when in use it will be necessary to hold the present design, that is, parts having straight 14 pitch teeth for repairs.
11-04-20 Brought drawings up to date by changing pitch diameter from 2.571” to 2.571 � .003.”
12-22-20 This part is no longer required for repairs, and has therefore been marked obsolete.
10-28-21 Added 3/32” to under side of cup, added slot for stop pin in bottom. Brought drawing up to date by specifying outside of cup to be machined and nickel plated. Changed distance between lugs which hold throttle and lead rods from 21/64” to 21/64-11/32”.
02-23-22 Changed angle between centerline of case and the center of 13/64” radius at ends of slot for stop pin from 45 degrees to 51 degrees.
11-24-22 Removed 2-59/64” diameter relief 3/32” long from upper part of threads, and changed width of 45 degree chamfer at top of case from 1/32” to 3/32”.
01-15-23 Changed method of specifying material from “W” brass to #2 Red Bronze.
05-27-24 Changed angle between centerline and ends of stop slot from 51 degrees to 60 degrees.
09-27-24 Changed width of stop slot from 13/32” to 15/32.” This changes radius for centerline of slot from .857” to .821” and for ends from 13/64” to 15/64.” Changed angle between centerline and right hand end of slot from 60 degrees to 65 degrees. Specified for 1925.
10-07-25 Changed angle between centerline and ends of stop slot from 60 to 62 degrees on left side and 55 to 67 degrees on right side.
There is a letter from the San Francisco branch to the home office dated 5/22/26. It says: “In recent assembly change letters we were again advised that the lower part of the steering column, part T-5042 was not to be painted, so as to allow the public to see the quality of the material which was embodied in the steering post.
“In checking over cars in the territory, we find that cars that have been out any length of time become very rusty and very dirty, and the quality of material does not show.
“Due to this, do you not think it is advisable to white shellac or apply the white coat of Pyroxylin on the lower part of the steering column so as to keep this material in A1 condition at all times and also assuring the public just what is assembled in the steering post.”

THROTTLE AND SPARK ROD EVOLUTION
7-17-11
Adopted for 1912. Handles to be brass plated and polished
5-20-12
Redesigned. Rubber knobs are removed and handles flattened and knurled.
9-27-12
Knurling removed and the handle is smooth.
9-18-15
Redesigned handles, now rounded. Still brass plated.
10-28-16
Dimensions (diameter) of rod stock now the same as valve stems so that the same stock could be used for either part.
7-14-16
Redesigned again. Copper and nickel plated and polished, for use on 1917 cars.
5-5-19
Specified to be zinc plated and polished.
7-27-26
Changed finish from zinc plate to nickel plate.
3-23-26
Added one-half inch to the top end, changing the distance from the bend from 3-3/4 to 4-1/4”

[Jones in Aiken SC]

Thanks for the information. What I REALLY need is a steering column shaft of 23 1/2" length. EDITED: That is incorrect on the SHAFT length, that is the tube length. The SHAFT length is 52.5" from the bottom of the wye (the part the pins are pressed into in the top) to the bottom of the shaft where the pitman arm goes on.

[KimDobbins]

Greg, was the one on your car incorrect?

[Jones in Aiken SC]

Kim, the shaft itself has issues such that I am looking for a better one. I could potentially take a longer shaft and machine it down to the 23 1/2" dimension with a new keyway if there is not one out there someplace. There is a local outfit that fabricates industrial shafts etc. that could probably do it.

[Scott Rosenthal]

Hi Greg:
See my PM response. If this is to be a driver, a 5:1 ratio shaft is a safety must have. Cost is likely less than an original, and is a fully invisible retrofit.
Regards,
Scott

[Jones in Aiken SC]

Scott-
I didn't get your message, could be because I changed my user name to "Jones in Aiken SC" which used to be Distagon2.

[Tbz4u]

I may have one I'll look

[Scott Rosenthal]

Hi Greg:
If you intend to drive this car, the later 5:1 steering is recommended. A 26/27 complete column is inexpensive, where this provides you with the 5:1 gears and the upper steering shaft parts. Any non 26/27 lower shaft is easily attached first with all thread, then welded and ground to the cleanup diameter.
Once retrofitted, this safety shaft cannot be distinguished, and costs at or less than an OEM shaft.
My 3 T's all have this retrofit.
Regards,
Scott