Torpedo

[ThreePedalTapDancer]

Looks like a good driver Torpedo. Not all correct, but the starting price seems fair.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1911-Ford-Mode ... SweAlf6mhN

[Wayne Sheldon]

Typical "don't know antique cars" poorly done ad. Pictures don't show well, top isn't put up properly. Cannot tell just how much is wrong or right with it. In the first place, it technically isn't a "torpedo" roadster. It may or may not be a real 1911 open roadster. Just can't tell from the pictures. It appears to have a lot that is close to right, the rear end? The engine maybe? No indication of a reserve. Someone might be able to get a really good buy on that poor listing?
I wish I had the money.

[Hap_Tucker]

Wayne,

You are correct about the low quality photos and the advertisement listed as "Model A" and also "Model T Torpedo" etc.

The rear cross member appears to be the correct style with the forged rar body brackets. During 1913 Ford replaced that style with the later style used through 1925.

The VIN which normally is the engine number is listed as: 64,812. "IF" that is the original engine number the car would have been manufactured around Aug 19, 1911. The Benson Ford Archives probably has the shipping document available for that engine number. Which if legible would quickly let a purchaser know if that engine number started out as an Open Roadster or some other body style. (Ref page 498 Bruce McCalley "Model T Ford")

The open runabouts were still being manufactured as late as Sep 19, 1911 again ref page 499 McCalley.

It has the two-piece front spindles and the tapered rear axle shafts which is consistent with a late 1911 build. The low resolution photos makes it hard to see for sure, but I suspect it has the 1912 style rear axle that was introduced as early as car # 63,150 which was manufactured Aug 8, 1911 (McCalley page 498).

Side note: the dates listed in Bruce's book from the shipping documents are the dates a car was manufactured. Normally they would have been shipped on or very close to that date.

The coil box is NOT hooked up and I do not see any insulators coming through the firewall. The spark plug wires appear to be going to something on the driver's side of the engine. Perhaps a magneto? I have also seen the VW bug distributors located on that side and set up to run off a cogged belt on the front of the engine. A photo from the other side would help clarify the ignition setup. And of course it would be nice to know if the casting date lines up with the engine serial number. Ford dealers would re-stamp the original engine number on a replacement block.

Like many of us -- I would need extra money and extra garage space to be able to bid on the car. (Oh, and for that large a purchase it would be wise for me to discuss it with my better half. One of my co-workers one time purchased a new Harley Davidson while he was deployed to the Afghanistan. His wife found out about it when the dealer called to let him know it had arrived. He wasn't home so his wife took the call... They are still married but it wasn't one of the most positive events for the marriage. ) But if I had all three of those and I wanted an Open Runabout -- I would ask for better pictures, pictures of both sides of the engine, find out where it was located (if listed -- I missed it) and order the shipping document from the Benson Ford Archives. The shipping document is probably available as they are only missing a few of them between car #1,119 (Mar 3, 1909) and car #70,702 (Sep 29, 1911) ref McCalley page 478 and 499. Cost is $35 available at: https://www.thehenryford.org/collection ... n-records/

And the auction says "no reserve" near the bottom of the auction. And also has a note Pick up only.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off

[TWrenn]

Hap, your last paragraph brings back a sort of fond memory of years past.
The year-1987--Christmas Eve. I just came home in time for supper. Halfway through the meal I
mustered up enough guts to say "oh guess what dear...I just signed a contract, traded our current sailboat, for a brand new 1988
Catalina 30!". It'll be here sometime in February. To this day, she still reminds me. The boat's been gone since 2001 when I went back to "the dark side"--- powerboating. Now I am totally out of boating. The cars won out!!

[TWrenn]

And someone shoulda taught the guy how to put the stupid top up! Sure makes the car unpresentable.

[John Warren]

Nice hearing from you Hap, I always love to read what you have to say. Thanks for all the details and hope you are well. jw

[ModelT46]

I think it has a 26-27 engine mounted coil box and that the switch is bing used that is on the wood coil box.

[Hap_Tucker]

Darel,

You might be right. But normally I've seen the 1926-27 coil box mounted higher on the head so we can see the wires and where they attach to the coil box as shown below:

(Photo courtesy of Jim Patrick)

Below is the only photo of the Open Roadster engine area. It appears the spark plug wires are going to a central location such as a distributor or magneto rather than to the four individual contacts on the Ford style coil boxes.

Engine right side.jpg (30.49 KiB) Viewed 4239 times

(Yes - it is really low resolution -- but that is what they posted.)

Note after I saved the photo and zoomed in on it, I can now see that the wooden coil box on the dash of the Open Roadster and that it does have the insulators coming through the firewall. But there are no wires connected to them, so I missed that when I originally was looking at the e-bay listing.

Tim,

You probably wouldn't have gotten away with, "Oh its really just the old boat but I paid them to do a really deep cleaning and detail job on it...."

And it is not unusual for someone who is not familiar with Ts or other old cars for that matter, to not know how to properly put the top up etc. We have had several new owners of T's post a photo of their car on the forum and the top was in a similar configuration. A quick explanation and they understand how to move the front top bow up to the higher eyelet. Like many things on the T -- they can fit more than one way. But they often function better one way than the other. The top "oops" is not near as hard to correct as the rear axle rebuilding "oops." The one where you find out you now have 2 speeds backwards and only one really slow speed forward. The good news it is easier to take the rear axle back apart the second time, as the threads on the bolts have been cleaned etc. And yes, for the car chassis with a stock rear axle, the T ring gear fits just as nicely on either side of the pinion -- a 50/50 chance if you don't follow a "How to guide" or take good notes when you take it apart.

John,

Thanks, it's good to know the postings aren’t just considered a nuisance. I have some extra time during the holidays so I’ve been looking at the forum and catching up on what has been happening. I'm hoping to retire in a couple of years and have more time to do research on the 1906-1927 Fords. (The other Ford years are great also -- but I have a special interest in those years.) Not to mention -- I need to get some work done on some of my cars -- and I'm hoping I'll have a little more time to do that when I retire.

Eventually the e-bay listing will be gone. Below are a couple of the photos from that listing which again is located at: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1911-Ford-Mode ... SweAlf6mhN That way folks can see what we were talking about:

Right side.jpg (33.1 KiB) Viewed 4239 times

Rear axle.jpg (31.1 KiB) Viewed 4239 times

Right side rear.jpg (32.96 KiB) Viewed 4239 times

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off

[Hap_Tucker]

Right side front.jpg (32.58 KiB) Viewed 4239 times

Front.jpg (29.04 KiB) Viewed 4239 times

Respectfully added,

Hap l9l5 cut off

[Mark Gregush]

Wires are going over the engine down the other side, so no 26/27 coil box. If you look real close, you can see the number pad just behind the timing gear casting. They could have taken clearer photos and used the enlargement feature, gee would have cost them a few more cents!

[Rich Eagle]

It looks to me like the spark plug wires are going to a distributor cap but I can't imagine what a distributor would be running off of in that location.
Rich

Torpeed.jpg (18.91 KiB) Viewed 4230 times

[TrentB]

From the rear view picture, I count 8 leaves on the spring. Both open and closed (torpedo) runabouts used 7 leaf rear springs.

Respectfully submitted,

Trent Boggess

[TRDxB2]

Typical "don't know antique cars" poorly done ad. Pictures don't show well, top isn't put up properly. Cannot tell just how much is wrong or right with it. In the first place, it technically isn't a "torpedo" roadster. It may or may not be a real 1911 open roadster. Just can't tell from the pictures. It appears to have a lot that is close to right, the rear end? The engine maybe? No indication of a reserve. Someone might be able to get a really good buy on that poor listing?
I wish I had the money.

Perhaps the low quality photo's are intentional

[Mark Gregush]

It looks to me like the spark plug wires are going to a distributor cap but I can't imagine what a distributor would be running off of in that location.
Rich
Torpeed.jpg

Could be one of those cog belt or chain drive distributors mounted on that side or a magneto.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=17913&p=135749#p135749

[Wayne Sheldon]

I never actually saw one myself. However, twice over the years I heard of a water pump distributor combination that was driven by a chain or toothed belt. I was never sure whether it was an original era piece, or something someone made a few of. One of the people said it was original era, but I wasn't sure I believed him.

[Dollisdad]

Enlarging the engine picture it look like it may have a Chevy II distributor laying on it’s side. It is driven with a pr. of 2pc., equal size gilmer drive gears, connected by a gilmer belt. The plug wires look like they are held in place by a stand, then routed to the distributor cap. I had one on my first speedster. It worked flawlessly.

[ThreePedalTapDancer]

The bids are coming strong. It looks like it’s got good stuff on it, including the long steering column. Wish there were some close up pics.

[Dollisdad]

Could be this setup.

[Jonah D'Avella]

Here is one of the later pictures.

[ThreePedalTapDancer]

Sold for 20,287