Model T Coils - Ford/K-W, Heinze, Kingston, others

[MKossor]

Ford/K-W ignition coils used 1913-1927 are the most prevalent Model T coils in use today. What is the second most prevalent type of pre-1913 Model T coil in use today and how common they are? Is it Heinze, Kingston, J&B or other coil?

The early coils are significantly more challenging to adjust for equal and consistent firing Time due to the lack of movable cushion spring innovation introduced by K-W. I suspect many have opted to utilize later, non-period correct, K-W coils in their pre-1913 car to enjoy superior engine ignition performance. Wondering if that would change if there were a better method of testing and adjusting the second most prevalent (Heinze?) early coil. Might make a nice surprise for Hershey this year

[MKossor]

Does anyone use Heinze, Kingston or J&B coils in their Model T?

[Aussie16]

Great to think you may be giving consideration to adjustment of the earlier styles of coils. I would guess that Kingston, then Heinze, then JB in order of popularity. I would say that most of the early T's that are toured consistently have been upgraded to accommodate the later KW style coils due to their reliability and availability. Proper operation and adjustment of the 09-12 style coils, I believe is still a bit of a mystery and any technical advise as to how to set them up for optimum operation would be great. I hope this thread get many comments and support from early T guys that like authentic ignition parts?

[Alan Long]

Yes, I run the Heinze brand in my 1910 and they come from Ron the Coilman. They work great and have no need
to service or adjust them. I am aware that these can’t be tested in Mikes Coil Tester that we have in Western Australia.
I would be one of very few that is using them as we have 1 x 1909, 4 x 1910 and about 10 x 1911 in our state and some are in Museums. I was wondering how we can adapt the Tester to suit my odd ball Coils
Alan in Western Australia

[Darren J Wallace]

I use Heinze coils in my early ‘13. I re-cored them using new regular primary and secondary windings for the later coils with the iron cores from the original Heinze coils modified to fit. I set the amps to 1.0, and they have worked very well for two years now. I calibrated them on a Regan Strobospark, with an adapter I built, that sits in the place of the regular coil and the Heinze coil is placed in the adapter. I have been able to get rid of double sparking by very carefully prying up or down on the stationary point ever so slightly and that seems to help calibration. I notice little difference in performance compared to a set of later coils calibrated on the same Strobospark. The performance of the car in general seems to be the same as a ‘15 I owned for 16 years. The only thing I’ve noticed is that when the car hasn’t run for over a week, it can be a little hard to start, but after that initial battle, it starts in a quarter turn every time all the time.

[Quickm007]

Yes, I run the Heinze brand in my 1910 and they come from Ron the Coilman. They work great and have no need
to service or adjust them. I am aware that these can’t be tested in Mikes Coil Tester that we have in Western Australia.
I would be one of very few that is using them as we have 1 x 1909, 4 x 1910 and about 10 x 1911 in our state and some are in Museums. I was wondering how we can adapt the Tester to suit my odd ball Coils
Alan in Western Australia

In Echo of Alan, I have 8 * 1911 coils for my 1911 touring and they are adjusted by RV Anderson and it will be nice having something to test and ajust them because adjustment is required every year. Mike if you need a volonter to test your new tool if you may have one, I raise my hand for sure. Your ECCT coils tester work so well, I have also your software as well and I'm very please with it. Thank you Mike for your contribution in the hobby. Really appreciated. I will be wondering either if we can adadpt the tester to suit early coils...

[Kbillet]

I made an adapter to insert Heinze coils into the ECCT coil tester. I now need help in understanding how to adjust the Heinze coils.

[attachment=2] Anyone out there that can help? Don't know if the Kingston coils are physically the same as Heinze.

Keith B

[Darren J Wallace]

Nice work Keith! Mine is a little cruder! Are your Heinze coils rebuilt ones with later coils inside, are they original, or rebuilt by RV Anderson? There’s a lower ampere setting of I believe 0.8 amps with original or RV’s, as he puts in windings that are the same as originals. The points also need a break in period from what RV had mentioned a while back on the forum but I don’t know that time frame. I do know it took a while for the points to settle in. I would check mine every time I took the car out over an 8 week span. I rarely check them now.

[KWTownsend]

I have Heinze coils for my 1911 that RV Anderson rebuilt and they are beautiful.
However, as cited above, the points get out of adjustment, which is why some many owners back in the day used master vibrators.
I like driving a lot and like things to be as original as possible, so I needed to figure out what I was going to do to have a consistently good running car.
I looked an the reproduction Heinze coilboxes that fit 1914-1927 KW coils, but was not overly enthusiastic.
So I rebuilt a set of KW type coils and rebuilt the boxes to fit into the original Heinze coilbox.
I had to modify the contacts on each coil so they have secure connection in the Heinze coilbox.
Here are some pics of what I did:

The front to back dimension had to be reduced by about 1/4" so I ended up removing the glass insulator so the new capacitor would fit.

With a couple of side to side shims they fit into the Heinze coilbox perfectly.
And if I want to, I can slide them out and put the original coils in place.

: ^ )

[R.V.Anderson]

To answer Keith's question, none of the makes of early coils have the same dimensions as another make; all are different. To address Mike's question, the most common make (today) of the early units is Heinze, followed by Kingston, especially the T-4238 (1912) units. The J-Bs were the least used, originally, so it follows that they are the least used today, though they are good coils. In my experience, the best of the early ones is the T-4232 Kingston, used in late '10 and '11. Not often seen on cars today though. All of them are good in their way, it's just that, as Keith pointed out, they are each unique in their needs and settings. One rather obvious example is that the '11 and '12 Kingston units are both adjusted in the opposite way from what you'd expect: to increase the amperage draw, you back off the adjusting nuts rather than turn them down in the usual fashion.

[MKossor]

Thanks to all who have replied and for the information provided.

Keith, nice Heinze coil adaptor. Having solved the ability to accurately measure Heinze coil firing time and consistency, the next task as you point out is; how to adjust the point element spring tensions and point gap to achieve equal and consistent firing time. That will take experimentation to understand the relationship of each variable. This is uncharted territory since it has always been done by using the average coil current as an indirect approximation for firing time. I don't own any Heinze coils so don't have much experience with adjusting them.

KWT, nice work on your custom size coil utilizing the K-W points. Yet another way to achieve good performance.

R.V., thanks for the background information on early coils. I had collected information about them a while back but interest faded. Recent inquires spurred renewed interest. I have modeled the K-W coils and Heinze coils with thought of making a common tester but noted the differences physical sizes and contact locations. A common tester would be awkward. I don't have access to the Kingston coils so can't compare then with the others for physical dimensions or contact locations.