Starting Old Cars

[Craig Leach]

Having seen Keith M's post about having to sell his T because of back issues. Having heard this many time as of late I wonder if there is a
solution other than pulling the engine & installing a starter. After market add ons are few & far between. In 2014 I worked on a 1912 Packard
tour bus ( 1912 &1/2 was the first year Packard had an electric motor starter) and this one was not equipt with one. It was over 400 CU.IN.
with a hand crank waist high. But could be started without having to crank it more than 3-4 times because it had a Ignition starting system.
You would crank it over to choke it after flooding the carb with the button on top. Open the primer cups and dribble a little gas in them, close
the primers. Climb up in the seat, make sure it was out of gear & the brake set. Turn the ignition to battery and turn the little switch in the
middle of the ignition switch right Then left firing the spark plugs 6-9 times to start the engine. Just like a free start on a T. After the engine was warmed up it started almost every time with out having to prime it (unless there was a lot of people watching)
Has anyone tried to do anything like that on a T? I know that with stock coils many free start regularly when warmed up. I have seen spark plugs
with primer cups on them & a explosion wistle adaptor could be fitted with a primer cup. A Hit & Miss or T coil could be used with a small battery
to insure the spark with out having to have a hold of the crank handle for safety reasons. It should only take one cylinder firing to turn the engine
one or two revolutions to start it. You would have to hand crank it to get it past TDC on the cylinder you have primed. With 4 primer cups acting
as compression releases that should be easy but picking one cylinder to start would insure you don't spin it backwards. You could prime all four.
Looking in the Dyke's Encyclopedia I see this system used even using acetylene. Compressed air was used also but the experiance I have had with
air starters is not good and the tank would be rather large.
I have thought about this since I started that Packard so I thought I'd throw it out there to see if it sticks.
Craig.

[TXGOAT2]

For garage starts, a starter outfit could be rigged up on a cart. A battery, starter motor, extension shaft with ujoint and slip spline, button switch. It would take some thinking to make it safe and handy, but it could be done. It would not be portable though.

[SurfCityGene]

I posted on the original thread about using a Torque Multiplier on a battery operated drill motor! I saw this in the HCCA magazine and it worked very nice and was carried with the vehicle.

[Craig Leach]

Hi Pat,
I have built one to start a 1900 Gasmobile runnabout. The hand crank is almost chest high & turns CCW. The hand crank comes off so I put a large
belt pulley on the crank drive with a small pulley on the starter. That I geared down 3:1 you realy need a oneway clutch on the drive so you can dissengae it once it starts. You would not need that on a T. Being pretty much self contained it was almost impossible for one person to put it in &
out of a pickup. I finaly got the compresion relaese to work well enough to hand crank it but the owner doesn't have the upper body strenth to
crank it himself. I was not able to build a spark starter for it because it has a low tension coil igniter spark ignition inside the cylinder.
Craig.

[Craig Leach]

Hi Gene.
I would love to see that.
Craig.

[TWrenn]

So far my remedy was to buy my last 2 cars with starters..including the '11 Torpedo! The shame of it all, right?!?..ha ha. Add to that, half the time I use BOTH hands to crank Clara the '13 although lately my shoulders been good enough and her too..I can start her one-handed with a "quarter yank" after 2 primes & 3 quarter yanks for cold start. Hot start she still fires up on one yank. Bless her heart.

[SurfCityGene]

Craig, Sorry I could not find that article in the HCCA magazine where I saw this unique idea for assisted starting of antique car engines.
It is an awesome thought and one I will at some time develop myself as my Torpedo has an increased compression ratio but luckily is an easy starter.

I looked on EBay and found a couple of Torque Multipliers of the larger type. I have used them on large industrial machines with like 4" nuts. It seems like a novel approach and one that would be user friendly and very compact.

My thought would be to remove the T crank and fit the ratchet to a short piece of round stock that would have a square at the other end. This would be installed back in the engine. A portable battery drill motor fitted with a square drive attached to the torque multiplier would simply be slipped on the square drive of the crank. The drill motor will then be powerful enough to turn the engine just like you would be hand cranking. A length of brace would need to be fitted to the drill into the mounting most drills have to restrain and counteract the torque.

Let me know if you are thinking of trying this. According to the article I read the guy was quite satisfied with his results.

Gene

[Craig Leach]

Hi Gene,
I looked for that with no results either. I would love to see it. The Aux. starter I built had a gear ratio of around 18:1 with a strong starter
motor a 18.5:1 torque multiplier is upwards of $4500 a heavy duty cordless drill is $200 + battery. In my mind this will take two people to
opperate. Or one real coordinated one. A model T starter has ia 12.8:1 gear ratio and a real strong motor. If you ever find that please post
it it will help alot of T drivers.
Craig.

[George House]

I found it !!!… From the Nov-Dec 2022 issue of the HC Gazette here reproduced

[Craig Leach]

Hi George,
I'm impressed that torque multiplier is only 3.3:1 gear reduction. I did not think that would be enough to turn a engine with a drill. I would think
someone with back issues would definitely want a drill with a handle on it so you could use two hands.
Craig.

[Scott_Conger]

I've always been intrigued with the idea of using a drill to start

if having a thumb wrapped around a crank handle is bad, I can only imagine what two hands and locked elbows using a drill would do!

[John Codman]

I know of a battery-operated wrench that will produce 650 ft lbs of torque - plenty to start a T. Obviously you would have to find a way to stabilize the wrench or the engine would stay stationary and you would revolve. I found a bunch of them on the internet for less then $200, some a lot less then $200 but you would have to give up a bit of twist. I saw one for about $60 that had 450 ft lbe of breakaway torque which should be enough. I didn't check to see if battery and charger were included.

[Craig Leach]

Hi Scott,
You are right if the engine kicked back it would be desasterous. You would have to install one way clutch ( spragg as some call it)in the drive
because we all know the crank ratchet is unrelliable for that job.
Hi John,
I think those wrenches torque ratings are in hammer force. The MFG's like to call it torque as it will tighten to that torque but will beat the
sh#t out of the drive & crank getting it to turn if even will.
In my pursute of this issue I have found that if you use the 1/2" pipe to 14mm spark plug adapter they sell a auto shut off compression release
for Harley Davisons with real high compression. They are super expensive from $80-$150 each and would require a special plug that when
replaced are $40 each.

I hope these suppliers don't mind.
Craig.

[frontyboy]

When starting a freshly rebuilt babbitt motor I use a Milwaukee hole hog drill. It is a right angle slow speed industrial drill motor. I machined a hex on the drive end to fit the drill chuck.
I used of a piece of cold roll the diameter of a t crank. Then drilled it to install the rachet for the crank. The crank drive is long enough and sits out forward of the radiator to allow the hole hog to be placed on an old milk crate. This allows the drill motor to be supported by the crate and not your hands or thumbs. The hole hog has threaded 1/2" pipe sockets to make handles. These stop the drill from spinning on the crate.

When I start the process I leave the spark plugs out and click the drill switch and the drill switch hold button and just let it run for a while. Next pop in the plugs, and fire the engine up. Once it fires up pull the drill motor back and disengage the ratchet. Now you have started a fresh stiff motor with no broken arms, or sprained thumbs. easy peasy.

just sayin,

frontyboy

[John Codman]

Just curious, Why would the engine kick back if the spark is retarded? My T has never kicked back in the nine years that I have owned it.

[Scott_Conger]

Why would the engine kick back if the spark is retarded?

It won't

but no one's memory is perfect and our hobby is filled with advanced and knowledgeable people who had to have orthopedic surgery due to a single lapse

plus, not every ignition system is perfect...after its purchase, my '13 spent a month trying to kill me until I found the short in the coil box which was occasionally firing the wrong coil at the wrong time. It was timed perfectly and couldn't hurt a fly...until it did, and did, and did. I got away with arthritis in my thumb joint after the black and blue 1/2 way up my forearm cleared up. It wasn't even the crank handle that got me...it would be wrenched out of my hand so quickly that I couldn't react in time and my pulling force ended up flinging my hand into the fender...go figure. I've since matured to cranking with my left hand and the motion(s) involved all but eliminate the chance of striking the car inadvertently, or being struck by the crank in an unfortunate accident.

It's for these unexpected reasons that I will NOT crank someone else's car unless I know them, and their car. One time at a tour, my dad asked me to crank someone's car (elderly fellow). I declined and my dad got really piqued at me, and I'm sure those guys crowded around the car didn't think too much of me either. Then one guy went to crank it and a loud howl promptly ensued. Not only was I vindicated, but I was still in one piece. My dad has never ever given me a hard time for my stance since.