Trying to figure out what this car is

[Michael H]

I am a newbie looking for a brass era car and saw this one and I am trying to figure out what it really is.

Here are three links to the car listed.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/it ... 7918480927

https://vaughnsclassiccars.com/vdp/2028 ... e-IL-62263

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTKMxPkgG54

It is advertised as a 1909 but I don't believe that is correct. The ad lists the serial number as #71326. Would that be a 1911 car? Whatever the year model it is I don't think it has the original or correct drivetrain. I noticed a starter on the engine in one picture and the rear axle housing looks to be a later model year as well. I'm sure there are a lot of other things as well.

Is this something I should run away from or does this seem to be priced anywhere near where it should be based on what it really is?

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks,
Mike

[Steve Jelf]

Vinyl drive train???
I assume the advertiser believes it's a real 1909, but it's a parts salad on a 1920-1925 chassis.

[Kerry]

They may be truly ignorant of what it really is or running a scam waiting for an over enthusiastic buyer not doing a serious check on it. You did the right thing on asking, but I'm sure if it had been the real deal, the price would 3+ times the asking price.

[Humblej]

Model T's were made over a rather long period of time, from 1908 thu 1927. There were a lot of changes over the years yet they remained the same model with many parts being interchangeable throughout production. This one has an early style body on a later chassis with a later engine. Since you are new to this, I would encourage you to read up on Model T's, see them at car shows, talk to owners, and join your local chapter of MTFCA or MTFCI, get knowledgeable, then seriously look for the right T for you. A very nice correct fully restored show car 1913-1916 brass T could be found for the price of this "1909" which needs a lot and will never be a 1909. If this were a true 1909 Model T in this condition it should be priced at above $35,000, if it were a true 1925 Model T in this condition it should be priced at $7,000 tops. I would not buy an older restoration and assume it is good to go, this car looks like it may need a through going thru to make reliable again, the engine, transmission, rear axle, that could involve a lot of time and money, and require knowledge and tools the average mechanic and average person does not have. My advice would be to pass on this one and find a correctly restored T that is ready to go and enjoy it. Good luck with your search.

[TXGOAT2]

I don't know much about the earlier Model Ts, but I can easily see that that car has little, if any, genuine 1909 content. Beyond that, the paint is in poor condition and the steering linkage has aftermarket devices intended to remedy problems related to worn parts, suggesting that the car likely needs mechanical work.

Like any car, it would be a bargain, at some price, but it doesn't look like anything close to a bargain at that asking price. If you want an early car, be sure you are getting one.

[speedytinc]

Well, it does have non demountable wheels.

[Susanne]

I wonder if it includes Anchovies, as that car is a parts salad... from block to drivetrain to chassis. I wouldn't even put money on the body.

Whatever it purports to being, one thing I am certain of - it is NOT a 1909. It's not even a 1919. I'm guessing 20's with a fantasy body, possibly out of the 50's to 70's. The chassis is mid to late 20's with a generator block and a 4 dip pan. Rear end is wrong, springs are wrong,... plus its REALLY rough for whatever it is.

I'd be walking away.

[TWrenn]

God almighty!!

[Scott_Conger]

Michael

welcome to the affliction!

In your first post, you just saved yourself thousands of $$, endless embarrassment, and years trying to unload this thing yourself!

I'd say you've hit the trifecta!

You WILL find the car you're looking for, and through questions, study, and patience, will be rewarded with a car which can and will provide years of enjoyment for you and your family.

My advice, is go slow, be selective, and ultimately, spending the most money NOW will lead to the cheapest car in the long run. I have bought Model T's both ways and can state with certainty that the cheap, bargain car is the one that is set to ruin me financially at this very moment...

[J1MGOLDEN]

That 4 inch board on top of the firewall that raises the windshield was added in 1910 or 1911, depending on whether you are talking about calendar years or model years.

That car appears to be what used to be called a dog's breakfast.

The dog got the table scraps!

[John Codman]

I don't have the knowledge - particularly about the very early Model Ts that many here do, but when I saw 1909 and $17,000 I knew something is very wrong with that deal.
The engine number is October, 1911.

[Rich Eagle]

This shows the '21 or later front spring hanger, below wishbone, later spring and spindles. Also, a slope top coil box.
Just my observations.

I also see late running board brackets, battery box and open spool rear axle in other photos.
The body looks like a legitimate early or repro body to me. Also fenders.
I studied this car when painting it and believe it is the same body type. I think 1909.

[Susanne]

You can see the generator hanging on the front right of the motor in one of the pictures... regardless of what number is stamped on the boss (in the wrong place for an 11), it's not one. Neither is the chassis. Just saying...

[Michael H]

Thanks for all the replies. Even though this is my first post I've been using the information on this site to learn more for several years. I knew enough to realize that price was be too good for an actual 1909. A lot of things didn't look correct to me but I knew that others on this site could tell me exactly what is not correct.

Thanks again for everyone's help and advice.

Mike

[speedytinc]

Not to say you couldnt "restore" what there & have an early "looking" T, but realize resale would be of interest to a very limited # of buyers.
You would have to get it for a WAY better price. My guess would be around $4K.