Transmission Bands - When to Replace?

[Apis Mellifera]

I drove my '19 around town last Saturday and gradually the foot brake became less and less effective. By the time I pulled in the garage, the pedal would go to the floor with basically no braking. Because it worked well at the start of the 10 mile drive, I was expecting a big oily fuzzball inside the trans, but that's not what I found. The brake band is adjusted tighter than low and reverse, but the lining is still there. This being my first band issue, anyone care to assess what I have?

I think I am in the market for re-lined quick change bands, if anyone has a set for sale.

[Moxie26]

Go for a new set of relined bands and new band springs

[speedytinc]

If you dont have a screen, you are not going to see the fuzz.

[Norman Kling]

How's your drum look? If it is a bluish color it is caused by the shoe dragging on the drum and can also lead to a cracked drum. You need good springs and the slots in the floor board and mat should not cause the pedal to stick.
Norm

[Apis Mellifera]

I have a screen. Drums appear smooth and uncracked. No bluing. I assume the brake band sees the most wear, so maybe the fact that it's tighter than the other two is normal. I understand that this is a "how heavy is a rock" type question, but does the brake band look to be at the end of it's life? Finally, where can I buy bands ready to install?

Many Thanks!

[speedytinc]

Judging the spring & thin side on the left, yes, replace.
Cotton/Scandia band material will rot over time. They look mushy.
I would replace them all. (but that me. I take a proactive approach) The other bands appear to be unraveling a bit.

[John kuehn]

It may have something to do with how often and how hard you press your brake band. If your not careful you can start using it as a foot brake that actually stops INSTEAD of slowing down early before you come up on a hill and start slowing down your engine speed. The slower engine speed acts as an engine brake. Doing that will extend the brake bands life to some degree. Maybe this can help. And getting an oil screen for your transmission really helps. It’s one of the best aftermarket accessories that Ford should have come up with!

[Norman Kling]

It could also be where and how you drive. A lot of round town driving involves stop and go. If you are on a hill it will take more brake going downhill. Try whenever possible to slow down with the gas and if you get slow enough, you can push hard on low pedal to let the compression of the engine slow you down. The brakes on a T are definately different than any modern car. That's why most of us use auxiliary brakes on the rear wheels. If you can stand the looks you can install hydrolic Disc brakes on the rear. But anyway you go it still has only rear wheel brakes.
Norm

[Jones in Aiken SC]

I don't know if there is a vendor out there who sells bands with new lining installed already, but I would check with Langs if that is what you are seeking. They may do it for you, you never know until you ask.

Bands are one of those things near and dear to Model T owners. I learned early from an old Model T mechanic how to re-rivit band lining on to bands. To this day, I dislike the job although it is not that hard.

[RajoRacer]

This machine makes lining bands way easier !!!

[Steve Jelf]

Mister Thrifty would keep the bands and reline them. I prefer Kevlar. If you haven't done it before and would like to try it yourself, search YouTube for "reline Model T transmission bands". If I could learn it I bet you can too. It ain 't rocket surgery.

[Moxie26]

www.guinnbands.com Will be helpful info on quality band liners. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2uhM4DPE0 ... e=youtu.be

[Apis Mellifera]

I have been unable to find relined bands ready to install and furthermore, have been unable to find anything but wood and Kevlar linings. Any reason to use one or the other? I live in Mountain State, so there are a few hills around and I am probably using the foot brake more than average and possibly improperly. The hand brake shoes are also worn out and I will be replacing them with new lined shoes and probably using it as the primary stopping mechanism or at least in parallel with the foot brake.

[speedytinc]

I have been unable to find relined bands ready to install and furthermore,

This is a very basic skill for a model T owner. You need to learn this skill. You need a copy of the T-1 service manual, if you don't already have.

have been unable to find anything but wood and Kevlar linings.

You can easily find old stock scandia or cotton linings.
I may be wrong, but I gather you are not a seasoned T driver. (no offence intended.)
If that's the case, I wouldn't recommend kevlar for a first band change. Kevlar is unforgiving. Operator error leads to expensive transmission rebuilds.
Either kevlar & wood must be installed with the H/H off, not thru the inspection cover.
After using up your next set of bands, I would recommend kevlar.

Any reason to use one or the other? I live in Mountain State, so there are a few hills around and I am probably using the foot brake more than average and possibly improperly. The hand brake shoes are also worn out and I will be replacing them with new lined shoes and probably using it as the primary stopping mechanism or at least in parallel with the foot brake.

Small drum brakes? Your idea of using lined parking brake shoes as a service brake is a bad one.
Being in the hills, Rocky mountain brakes would be a smarter/safer way to go.

As stated before, learn to use your motor(spark & throttle levers) to do most of your braking. Use your service brake to an absolute minimum.
Good luck & drive safe.

[Apis Mellifera]

I don't know what you consider easy, but I looked at the vendors listed on this site, on eBay, and Googled it, but still have not found any cotton linings - NOS or the modern version that's not recommended.

[Allan]

Matt, from your questions and responses I gather that you are a relative newcomer to T driving. Accordingly, I would advise you fit Kevlar bands, as these are the most forgiving under the foot of a new driver. They have their own characteristics to discover, but they will take punishment while you develop your skills.

Your thought to use the new lined emergency brakes to help with stopping comes with a caveat. As soon as you engage them, you disengage the clutch and in doing so, you immediately lose all engine braking. Rather than develop that practice, I would keep the handbrake in reserve for emergency stops. Advice given to me by an old timer is to drive as though you have no brakes. Treat the car as you would a 10 ton loaded truck. Plan your stops ahead as far as possible, leaving as much room as possible. His advice has served me well for 65 years or so.
Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.

[George Mills]

Everybody has an opinion That's what makes the world go around.

To me and what I recommend is that Kevlar is not for the novice...unless...you mount them a tad loose and bring them in a click at a time until you get the action that works for all occasions. A bit of work time wise, but you are learning the 'feel'. Then when feeling spot on, you may have to go in and take yet another click to your start point after 100 miles or so. Also, with Kevlar I feel folks need to learn to pump the brakes a bit while stopping. Kevlar only has some 8-10% higher friction than the old stuff...but it is harder, and, it doesn't hold oil like a sponge. Finally, the bands have to be round and stay round during the install. Turn them into an egg, and even with best practices you may wind up with a tight spot, which winds up as a rub on the drum, which makes a blue spot, etc.

Guinn wood bands on the other hand are pretty bullet-proof as long as your follow the rules...keep them round during install! Guinn use to offer lining mounting service so they come ready to install - not sure he still does. If they 'chirp' when you be done, to me thats a back off like a 'click' on the springs and they do settle.

Do change the springs the old ones always go soft and limp. There is a dimension which escapes me now, but out of the box is usually too long and too stiff and if you can get it all stuffed in, you be OK but you don't want to be playing with nuts and washers too much...the law of averages usually goes against you somewhere along the line with a 'drop' - even with stuffed rags. When Moxie and I redid Edisons T in North Jersey, I took the new springs, put them in a vice, took them fully compressed plus a quarter turn and when they were released and spring back the length was spot on to make it relatively simply without fighting back during install.

Good luck.

[Allan]

George the steps in adjusting Kevlar bands you use should be used by novices and anyone else too. The idea is to creep up on the adjustment until the bands function as they should. That way you leave the maximum clearance between the drum and lining, consistent with their correct operation.

I suggest them for novices because they are very forgiving of incorrect use. It is very easy to fry ordinary cotton bands with incorrect use. Kevlar will not give in so easily. Once the correct driving technique is mastered, kevlar bands will last much longer than any others I have used.

Allan from down under.