Hard Lesson Learned On Removing Magnets

[mcnallyf]

I just wanted to post something that I recently learned about removing magnets and replacing with oil slingers. I am new to the Model T world, only been doing it for 3 years. About a month ago I had to replace the oil pan in my 25 Roadster because the welded motor mount broke. While I had the pan off, I decided to remove the magnets, because I am using a distributor and a 12 volt ignition. I made 4 oil slingers out of 1/16 x 1 x 1 steel angle iron. I figured lightening the flywheel would give me more get up and go. As soon as I started driving it, I realized I had a lot less power. Climbing hills it had 30% to 40% less climbing power. My top speed was 10 mph less. I could not believe it. I had driven this car over 2500 miles this spring and earl summer and I knew how it ran and how much power and speed it had, and now it was a slug. Even my wife noticed how it had such a hard time climbing the hills on one of our rides. I drove it for about 300 miles, and decided to put the magnets back in. I weighed them with the little pads and brass screws, ant they weighed 17.2 lbs. As soon as I started driving it I felt it was back to its original power.

Come to find out less weight on flywheel = less torque. Less torque you lose pulling power.

I even asked Chat GPT:
I said:
will less weight on an automobile flywheel mean less torque, therefor less power

ChatGPT said:

Yes, a lighter flywheel in an automobile will generally result in less torque and, therefore, less power during certain phases of engine operation, particularly when it comes to maintaining momentum and smoothing out power delivery.

Here's why:

1. Torque and Inertia:
The flywheel stores rotational energy due to its inertia. A heavier flywheel has more inertia, which helps maintain engine speed (RPM) during periods when the engine might otherwise slow down (like between power strokes).
A lighter flywheel has less inertia, so it can't store as much energy. This means that the engine may lose RPM more quickly, particularly when under load or during gear changes.

2. Impact on Torque:
With less inertia, a lighter flywheel can result in less torque during situations where the engine needs to maintain RPM, such as accelerating from low speeds or driving up a hill. The engine may feel less powerful in these situations because it requires more effort to keep the flywheel spinning.

3. Power Delivery:
While a lighter flywheel can allow the engine to rev up more quickly (since there's less mass to spin), it also means that power delivery may be less smooth, and the engine may struggle more to maintain torque in situations where consistent power is needed.

4. Overall Power:
The actual peak power output of the engine (measured in horsepower) is not directly affected by the weight of the flywheel. However, the ability to apply that power effectively, particularly in real-world driving conditions, can be compromised by a lighter flywheel, leading to an overall feeling of reduced power.
In summary, while a lighter flywheel can make the engine more responsive and rev quicker, it can also result in less torque being delivered effectively, which can make the car feel less powerful under certain conditions.

I just wanted to share this, because for me it was a big lesson.

I have a you tube channel that I posted about it, just if you go to it, the video I did on this I did not pay attention to how the camera was aimed, and it got pointed at the opening of my nose, so there are several comments on that, and I am sorry about it, but I am just a 65 year old retired toolmaker, not a videographer. This is a link to the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=At1nKBl2UR8

[Dan Hatch]

I have sold a few Model A stock flywheels to replace ones guys have lightened for more speed. Then like you found they could not get over the same hills like before.
Henry knew what he was doing,

[Steve Jelf]

Fifteen million cars in a run of nineteen years suggest that Henry and his engineers knew their business. Most "upgrades" aren't.

[Craig Leach]

Hi Francis,
I'm one of those that run slingers on all my engines, I'm also a advocate for making torque by other means. I'm probably wrong but I would
like to point out one issue I noticed on your video that the slingers you made & installed are pointing in the direction that will scoop the oil
into the center of the crankshaft rather than through it out to the outside. I have been given the belief that this will starve the supply of oil
to the funnel & keep the oil in the transmission. This can lead to premature engine failure by not getting enough oil to the front of the engine.
I have no idea what this will do to torque out put. But changing back to magnets may have been a engine saver. Knowing several people that
have had catastrophic magnet failures that broke hogs heads & junked transmissions I would not install magnets in a model T engine without
magna-fluxing them first. JMHO
Craig.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

The other good thing about removing the oil slingers that you made, is that they would have eventually failed. 1/16" angle iron is way too light for oil slingers.

[A Whiteman]

Thanks for putting this post together, I am glad to hear you and your wife are enjoying the car.
'Living and learning' is all part of the fun of the hobby.

[Dan Hatch]

Another thing about removing magnets is the chance of the triple gear pins back out of the flywheel. The magnets keep that from happening. While I have never had that happen, I have heard of it and seen the results.
I always put one of Dan’s keeper rings on flywheels I remove the magnets from for a customer.
Also only use his slingers too. He makes the best stuff.

[Loftfield]

If Henry didn't put it on the car then you don't need it. Always need to remember that Mr. Ford did not just throw the car together. Every piece was engineered to be just right for the torque and speed expected. To keep costs down and profits high, nothing was over-engineered. Somehow my friends who are addicted to high compression heads jackrabbit clutches, etc., alway seem to be the ones breaking axles or experiencing other catastrophic failures.

[Rich P. Bingham]

. . . Somehow my friends who are addicted to high compression heads jackrabbit clutches, etc., alway seem to be the ones breaking axles or experiencing other catastrophic failures.

It’s refreshing to see some opinions expressed that recognize the amazingly durable reliability of the Model T as she was built. Part of the dissatisfaction with her stems from the fact that the environment she was made for is mostly non-existent for all but a few 21st century owners. Model T is above all, a remarkable all-terrain vehicle with more flexibility than the latest ATVs. Like a tireless horse, she’ll lope along all day over winding dirt roads at 25-30 per, and happily. Grind along a paved straight of way at 35-45 and you can feel the resentment building to a point where, pressed too hard, she’ll throw a rod.

She’s a joy to drive and tinker with “as-is”. For those who want her to perform like anything else built after 1930, she’s horribly inadequate, and thus a laboratory for experimentation aimed at correcting all of her native faults, real or imagined. Since the beginning, owners have applied their own ideas for improved performance, some minimally invasive, others extreme, with varying degrees of success. Hence the prevailing philosophy, “it’s your car, do with it as you like”, but one should ask one’s self, “why do you want to own a Model T anyway ??”.

It’s a great hobby, literally, any road !

[speedytinc]

Well said Rich B.

[John kuehn]

Here’s a 27 T that’s been ‘overtinkered’ to be something that it’s not. The picture tells the story. Thanks Rich for reminding us about tinkering.

[Daisy Mae]

Well said Rich.
I'll never knock anyone modifying their cars, lord knows I've done more than my share in the day with 60's muscle and 4x4's in my youth... no judge am I.
But your post aligns with the philosophy I've always had with my Model A & T's....to "restore" them in stock/as found condition.
For me personally, it's like being a steward of history, while enjoying them as they would have been...cantankerous or otherwise.
My Model A though is as reliable as any of my other cars...maintenance of course is way more. But Annie, my 29 Roadster, is my errand car for anything in a 10 mile circle.