Pre 15 tourings
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Rich Eagle
- Posts: 6895
- Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:51 am
- First Name: Richard
- Last Name: Eagle
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1909 TR 1914 TR 1915 Rd 1920 Spdstr 1922 Coupe 1925 Tudor
- Location: Idaho Falls, ID
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Wayne Sheldon
- Posts: 4249
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:13 pm
- First Name: Wayne
- Last Name: Sheldon
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1915 Runabout 1913 Speedster
- Location: Grass Valley California, USA
- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: Pre 15 tourings
I have to get out and get a little work done. However, the third photo is Henry Ford driving. If I recall correctly, he is visiting with some family?
I may comment on the others later.
I may comment on the others later.
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Wayne Sheldon
- Posts: 4249
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:13 pm
- First Name: Wayne
- Last Name: Sheldon
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1915 Runabout 1913 Speedster
- Location: Grass Valley California, USA
- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: Pre 15 tourings
Four more wonderful era photos of early T touring cars!
Pictures one and two are quite interesting. Both appear to be 1910s. They look a lot alike, however, the windshields are different makes, and I am not sure about the headlamps. The sidelamps look to me as though they may be alike, however, I am not a lamp expert. Both cars clearly show the brass plated hand crank (with black rubber based hand grip handle). The first car also shows the brake handle being brass plated. Plating of those two items ended later in 1910.The first photo also shows the two bolt front body mount, which was replaced late in 1909 on touring cars (early '10 model), so the car would appear to be a very early '10. The roadsters continued with the two bolt front bracket somewhat later, about mid 1910. The running board in photo one does to me look like the stamped steel 1910 type. Photo two I can;t tell for sure, but I think it is stamped steel. There are marks along part of the side of that running board, however, the spacing does not look correct for the earlier wooden board's side trim.
Both cars appear to have the same "bill" type front fenders. That front end of the front fenders changed several times during 1909. I would really like to see a definitive timeline for the fender changes. I have read many things over the years, and not all authors agree on that detail.
Photo three has been discussed a few times in the past. I wish I could remember what the final conclusions were.
It does appear to be a slab-side 1912. However, I do not recall seeing many removable front doors with outside door handles on them, which this car has. And most of the removable front doors i have seen with outside handles, were earlier after-market door kits for earlier bodies. Early step-side style '12 T touring cars had outside handles on the rear doors, similar to the '09/'10/'11 touring cars did. However, that was discontinued fairly early in the year model. We cannot see the back of the rear door, so cannot tell for certain what it has. wonder if this could have been a custom detail for Henry's use?
Car number four appears to be a fairly early 1911. Typical for the early touring cars step-side body. Still has the long rear hub indicating the straight and pinned axle/hub attachment like the '09/'10s had. That changed fairly early in 1911. I zoomed in as close as detail would allow, and couldn't tell for sure about the front axle. Based upon what I can and cannot see (and where I cannot see it), I would guess it has the later two-piece spindles and spindle arms. The earlier one-piece style held the tie (connecting) rod higher, and where I would expect that style to be? I cannot see it. That would be a short-lived and rare combination, since both features were being changed around the same time-frame.
Also, take special note of the rear fender. 1909 and '10 models had straighter more narrow fenders, front and rear (look at the first two pictures above!). The fronts had a more complicated inner panel (doesn't show well in any of these photos), the rears more simple and straight. For 1911, the fenders got the more familiar (to us) shape. The fronts now had a flatter simpler inner panel. The rears got a wider fender that curved inward alongside the body, protecting the car and passengers a little better from splashes.
More photos that are fun to look at and learn from.
Thanks again Tom R !
Pictures one and two are quite interesting. Both appear to be 1910s. They look a lot alike, however, the windshields are different makes, and I am not sure about the headlamps. The sidelamps look to me as though they may be alike, however, I am not a lamp expert. Both cars clearly show the brass plated hand crank (with black rubber based hand grip handle). The first car also shows the brake handle being brass plated. Plating of those two items ended later in 1910.The first photo also shows the two bolt front body mount, which was replaced late in 1909 on touring cars (early '10 model), so the car would appear to be a very early '10. The roadsters continued with the two bolt front bracket somewhat later, about mid 1910. The running board in photo one does to me look like the stamped steel 1910 type. Photo two I can;t tell for sure, but I think it is stamped steel. There are marks along part of the side of that running board, however, the spacing does not look correct for the earlier wooden board's side trim.
Both cars appear to have the same "bill" type front fenders. That front end of the front fenders changed several times during 1909. I would really like to see a definitive timeline for the fender changes. I have read many things over the years, and not all authors agree on that detail.
Photo three has been discussed a few times in the past. I wish I could remember what the final conclusions were.
It does appear to be a slab-side 1912. However, I do not recall seeing many removable front doors with outside door handles on them, which this car has. And most of the removable front doors i have seen with outside handles, were earlier after-market door kits for earlier bodies. Early step-side style '12 T touring cars had outside handles on the rear doors, similar to the '09/'10/'11 touring cars did. However, that was discontinued fairly early in the year model. We cannot see the back of the rear door, so cannot tell for certain what it has. wonder if this could have been a custom detail for Henry's use?
Car number four appears to be a fairly early 1911. Typical for the early touring cars step-side body. Still has the long rear hub indicating the straight and pinned axle/hub attachment like the '09/'10s had. That changed fairly early in 1911. I zoomed in as close as detail would allow, and couldn't tell for sure about the front axle. Based upon what I can and cannot see (and where I cannot see it), I would guess it has the later two-piece spindles and spindle arms. The earlier one-piece style held the tie (connecting) rod higher, and where I would expect that style to be? I cannot see it. That would be a short-lived and rare combination, since both features were being changed around the same time-frame.
Also, take special note of the rear fender. 1909 and '10 models had straighter more narrow fenders, front and rear (look at the first two pictures above!). The fronts had a more complicated inner panel (doesn't show well in any of these photos), the rears more simple and straight. For 1911, the fenders got the more familiar (to us) shape. The fronts now had a flatter simpler inner panel. The rears got a wider fender that curved inward alongside the body, protecting the car and passengers a little better from splashes.
More photos that are fun to look at and learn from.
Thanks again Tom R !
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Original Smith
- Posts: 3699
- Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:43 am
- First Name: Larry
- Last Name: Smith
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 13 Touring, 13 Roadster, 17 Coupelet, 25 Roadster P/U
- Location: Lomita, California
- MTFCA Life Member: YES
Re: Pre 15 tourings
The title of this post should have read Pre 13 Tourings!