1912 Touring top drawing needed

[49willard]

I am rebuilding my 12 touring top with original irons and new bows from Langs. I do not trust that my bows were original so I do not trust using my original bows as pattern to in sure that a new top that I plan to purchase from Classtique will fit properly. I located this old thread from the forum in 2011 which includes an original drawing for a 1913 top (I could not get that drawing to copy into this thread). The 2011 posting is as Follows:

Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2011: 1913 Touring - top bow dimensions please.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message By David Dare on Monday, October 31, 2011 - 09:29 pm:
I need the top bow dimensions for both width, height, both inside and outside widths, original widths for my 1913 Touring please.
-front
-centre
-rear

Thanks David.
The magazine tech letter I posted above was for 1913, reading another letter in another issue and found for the 1914 the same dimensions stated, except the bow #'s were swapped, i.e. #1 bow was given as 7" ? Don't know if error or if the front bow is #1 or the rear bow is #1 as stated by the tech letter author....I don't know either!

But here is the detail sketch from M. Fahnestock's book Model T Fordowner of the Ford 2 man top dimensions. That is found in public domain, you would have to research top bow factory drawings at the Benson Ford research center to gain the real and correct info.

My personal experience is limited to '23-'27 one man tops.


I tried to get into the Benson Ford Research files on line without success. Does anyone have access to the same information for a 1912 Touring?
I would expect changes from 1912 to 1913 in part at least due to the windshield differences

HELP!

[49willard]

Well I got the drawing into my personal files from the 2011 post above in my computer but how do I enter them into the post. On other forums that I participate in the button with the mountain scene allow accessing MY files if I click on it this is what I get the [img] but no direction to go to my files to insert a file item like the drawing

[Lessumner]

I have the following info that has been posted on this forum over the years. Les

[49willard]

Les,
Thanks for posting the drawings!

[DanTreace]

Some more photos and info on 1912 touring top bow in this 2013 forum post.


https://search.app/MbCnGEgtL5QEVUPg7

[49willard]

Les and Dan
Thanks for posting the drawings and links!

[49willard]

It turns out that I have very good agreement with the drawing below. I do believe that my bows are original. The problem is that the rear bow, #4, has been broken and crudely repaired with a splint and the front bow, #1, has a significant bow inward where it should be straight. I purchased 4 new bows from Langs which are supposed to have an inside dimension of 54 inches per their website and 3 of my original bows are 53 1/2 inches. Although bows #2 and 3 look good they will not stack when down with just 2 new bows ( #1 and 4) such that I think that I will have to replace all 4 bows.

I thank all that have helped

[Allan]

Using four new bows which are all the same width is the way to go. Wood bows naturally tend to open out if not stored with a tack strip between the "legs" This tendency is your friend. Pulling them back into line will raise a small crown across the top, alleviating the inwards curve you mention in the front bow, and adding crown on the other three.
I have two observations to offer. Pay attention to the lay of the back bow. The back curtain should be well to the rear of the back panel, or your car will have a hunched back look. The second and third bows should be the same height.
If you are contemplating installing the new top yourself, setting the bows correctly is of paramount importance. I hold them in place with thin timber laths tacked to the under side of the bows, and on the inside of the back bow. This allows you to adjust how they lay and their relationship to each other, and hols them firm while you add the pads and top material. Even then, I let my trimmer do the fitting.

Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.

[49willard]

In the older post (2013) the following was posted:

y Ward Sherwood on Sunday, January 27, 2013 - 01:28 pm:
"Ward, When your top is folded, do the tops of bows #2 & #3 line up? When #2 is in the folded position its pivot point is the same as #3 pivot point. If the bows are the same length they will line up when folded. Also, when folded, the pivot points for bows #1 & #4 are both 1 3/8" above bows #2 & #3 pivot points. That means if bows #1 & #4 line up when folded, bows #1 & #4 are the same length."

Yes, bows 1 and 4 are the same length, and bows 2 and 3 are essentially the same length (within 1/8" to 1/4") on this particular 1911 touring.


Do others find that the #1 and #4 bows are the same length such that when folded down #! and #4 line up? #2 and #3 line up on my 1912 Touring however #1 is shorter on my car such that #1 and #4 do not line up when folded down. When stacked the #1bow is 3 inched ahead (shorter) than the #4 bow.

[KWTownsend]

Yes.
When the top is folded down on my 1911, bows #1 and #4 and even and #2 & #3 are even.

When the top is in the up position, the total vertical height of bows #2 and #3 are even.

Take your time to line up everything.

I made this pattern for a top boot. Mike at Classtique made it for me and has the pattern.

-Keith

[49willard]

Keith,
Many thanks for the post with excellent photos and dimensions. Not sure that I understand the "wedge". My #4 bow is very bad with several repairs. Does the wedge increase the thickness and arch the #4 bow?

[KWTownsend]

Here are a couple of pictures of the #4 bow "wedge" that I created:

Here is some information from a few years back when I did mine:

https://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/3 ... 1368324877

I'm sorry, I don't remember how wide I made it.

: ^ )

Keith

[Allan]

A thin wedge like that will help retain a slight upward bow in the rear bow. The rear bow takes a fair load, being pulled down by the rear curtain, forward by the top and every which way by passing traffic, especially trucks. I know it is not a Ford factory item, but a 1 1/2" wide x 3/4" thick board, shaped to follow the inside profile of the back bow, makes an excellent stiffener for that bow. They are standard issue on some of our colonial built cars, including my wide body Duncan and Fraser built roadster.

Allan from down under.