Ok.. I'm stuck..

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Larry e rutt
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Ok.. I'm stuck..

Post by Larry e rutt » Mon Feb 24, 2020 7:40 pm

So with the 4 bolts out, shouldn't the transmission slide back off the crank ? What is the est way to convince it to slide off ?
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Scott_Conger
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Re: Ok.. I'm stuck..

Post by Scott_Conger » Mon Feb 24, 2020 7:54 pm

WHOA!!!!!!!

set that engine on it's nose before a very expensive and hazardous crash occurs!

there are two dowel pins that fit very closely and you will have to work to wriggle it off the end of the crank flange. Engine nose-down and preferably a sling or other lift device to take weight off while you carefully wiggle the flywheel and nurse it off the dowel pins.
Scott Conger

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Kerry
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Re: Ok.. I'm stuck..

Post by Kerry » Mon Feb 24, 2020 7:55 pm

The fly wheel and trans will come off the crank with those 4 bolts removed, the fly wheel to crank will still be on 2 dowels so rock and if need be tap the whole lot off. It's heavy as a whole so watch your fingers and toes :o


Stephen_heatherly
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Re: Ok.. I'm stuck..

Post by Stephen_heatherly » Mon Feb 24, 2020 8:39 pm

Put a couple of bolts back in before the flywheel falls off. The flywheel and transmission assembly weighs about 85 pounds. You don't want that to land on your foot not to mention the damage it'll cause.
Stephen


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Larry e rutt
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Re: Ok.. I'm stuck..

Post by Larry e rutt » Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:42 pm

Got it thanks... I sat on my can and wiggled it off... I appreciate the help.. I hate to be naive but what am I going to hurt by having my motor laying on the side ?

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Mark Gregush
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Re: Ok.. I'm stuck..

Post by Mark Gregush » Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:56 pm

Nothing too bad on it's side, but we see an engine hanging tail down in the photo. ;) (Untill you click on the photo and open it)
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

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Colin Mavins
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Re: Ok.. I'm stuck..

Post by Colin Mavins » Mon Feb 24, 2020 10:21 pm

Having the engine on a stand so you can turn the engine is the way to go you will find this out when you put it back together it will be so much easier Cheers Colin


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Larry e rutt
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Re: Ok.. I'm stuck..

Post by Larry e rutt » Mon Feb 24, 2020 10:41 pm

HAHA. Ok thanks.. I am a furniture guy not a auto mechanic.. I used 2 bar clamps to compress the valve springs ( one on either side of the spring to the top of the block ) I'm sure that is not the easiest way either.. but I couldn't figure out for the life of me what I am in danger of by laying the motor on the side... In other news a am not sure if my T will ever ride again., but I sure am having fun...SOMEDAY I'm going to have to start going back together again..😁


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Re: Ok.. I'm stuck..

Post by jiminbartow » Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:55 am

In 2010, I made an engine stand for holding the engine vertical, on its’ nose. See www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/152658.html. This was especially useful in gapping the magnets and mag coils. I had to lift the transmission on and off a dozen times as I added and removed the shims until I finally got the gaps perfect on all magnets. What a job! But it as made much easier with the stand I made.

Tip: As you remove the mag coil from the block, carefully keep track of the shims you remove from between the mag coil and block and label each and where they go. Take care. There may be a number of very thin brass shims under each hole. If the engine is on its’ nose, they will not fall out as easily and can be re-used. This may make gapping easier when you are ready to reassemble. Jim Patrick


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Re: Ok.. I'm stuck..

Post by John kuehn » Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:43 am

Years ago (being a lot younger!) when I dissembled my first T engine I did it on the floor. Removed the transmission cover, then the pan and finally the transmission laying horizontally on the floor. I didn’t have an engine stand at the time.
It just looked like to me you could do it that way so that’s what I did.
I had just bought out a collection of T parts, engines, parts, pieces and etc.

I used the best parts to build a running engine and assembled it on the floor. I did have to remove the transmission a few times to shim it so it wouldn’t hit the mag.
I started it up and it ran pretty good. A while later and having a manual I rebuilt it with new valves, rods and so on.
Only this time I used an engine stand! And had bought a T service manual!

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Re: Ok.. I'm stuck..

Post by dobro1956 » Tue Feb 25, 2020 11:40 am

I'm suprised no one has mentioned the danger of bending the crankshaft flange. When the fourth main is not in position, it is possible to bend the crankshaft flange just by hauling the engine in a truck bed. The unsupported weight is way more than the crankshaft flange can take. Almost every engine I bought that did not have the fourth main in place has had a bent crankshaft flange. Usually they are bent about .002 thou. I attribute the bent flanges to hauling the engine with no fourth main or rolling the engines around on the floor. The only good way to protect the flange is to leave the fourth main in place till the engine is on its nose on a engine stand or something to hold it on its nose.

There may be many cases of "being lucky" and not bending the crankshaft flange, but I believe there are more cases of "not being lucky".

have fun and be safe


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Re: Ok.. I'm stuck..

Post by jiminbartow » Tue Feb 25, 2020 11:51 am

PS. Regarding the vertical engine stand I made above, being that it holds the flange at about waist high, it is the perfect height for the average man to lift the heavy transmission on and off the flange, as you gap the magnets using a set of brass feeler gauges. It also allows you to easily move the engine around your shop, using a hand truck. Jim Patrick

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Re: Ok.. I'm stuck..

Post by Mark Gregush » Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:25 pm

I set mine as suggest above only I leave the transmission off, using only the shaft. Don't understand the point of removing the "WHOLE" assembly multiple times to set the gap as shown in some of the postings I have seen.
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

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Re: Ok.. I'm stuck..

Post by Scott_Conger » Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:41 pm

Mark

I'm with you
Scott Conger

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Playswithbrass
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Re: Ok.. I'm stuck..

Post by Playswithbrass » Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:22 pm

That was funny. All my photos post upside down or sideways but if you click on them they they display correctly. It doesn’t matter how I take them or how I think I am posting them. But no one has ever asked me why I am assembling my speedster upside down


DHort
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Re: Ok.. I'm stuck..

Post by DHort » Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:46 pm

I think AdminJeff did that on purpose. He wants to make sure we look at the pictures and not just read the captions. Or maybe it is just for neck exercising.


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Re: Ok.. I'm stuck..

Post by Stephen_heatherly » Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:37 pm

Mark, we're both on the same page. I'm a little on the scrawny side and am barely strong enough to pick the transmission up once and sit it on the crankshaft much less several times in one day. I adjust the magneto without the transmission then assemble the transmission with the flywheel already installed on the crankshaft.

Stephen

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Mark Gregush
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Re: Ok.. I'm stuck..

Post by Mark Gregush » Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:22 am

I don't have a way to pick that sucker up and lift that high as an assembly when on the engine stand, so I put the transmission on when I reach that point.
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

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nsbrassnut
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Re: Ok.. I'm stuck..

Post by nsbrassnut » Wed Feb 26, 2020 6:44 pm

Hi All

Alternate method of transmitting fitting. From the MTFCA engine rebuild manual.

Way easier when it has to come on/off a few times when checking coil ring shims.

Drive Safe

Jeff
Nova Scotia
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Re: Ok.. I'm stuck..

Post by Scott_Conger » Wed Feb 26, 2020 7:08 pm

a winch coming with the manual is a he!!-of-a-deal! :lol:
Scott Conger

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Re: Ok.. I'm stuck..

Post by John kuehn » Wed Feb 26, 2020 7:20 pm

Since this is a either or issue about how to mount the transmission how was it done at the Ford factories when they were in production. Are there existing pictures of it being done at the factory? When you don’t have a lot of equipment usually at home for the average T hobbyist it would make sense to do it the easiest way possible.
Seems like it’s a preference for the individual I would would think.


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Re: Ok.. I'm stuck..

Post by jiminbartow » Wed Feb 26, 2020 8:54 pm

The reason we have to adjust the gap, using various thicknesses of shims is to compensate for many years of wear that cause the magnet to mag coil gap to vary from when it was new. Since time was of the essence on the assembly line, not much time was allotted for time consuming adjustments, so I’m inclined to believe that, since brand new parts were being used, with all of them being pretty much identical, that, once the various components were assembled by very experienced technicians, the mag/mag coil gap was automatically within the tolerances allowed when the transmission was mounted onto the flange. Jim Patrick

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Re: Ok.. I'm stuck..

Post by DanTreace » Fri Feb 28, 2020 9:58 pm

Couldn’t find yet any factory photos of trans mounting but Ford had so many special fixtures on the engine assembly line. Service Bulletin pictured one man holding trans and flywheel on one knee and mounting it that way, but would be for service away from factory.

The schedule of steps in engine assembly in Ford Methods and the Ford Shops lists #64 , one man and time of 38 seconds in which using gauge to mount coil ring on the block, so tolerances were checked for gap. Step #66 is trans added , says ‘hand’ but no # of workmen listed, but time of over 4 minutes, so could be fixture to lower the trans with motor vertical or maybe horizontal.


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Re: Ok.. I'm stuck..

Post by Mopar_man » Sat Feb 29, 2020 9:11 am

So you get four of these? Or just two for the pins?:
https://www.modeltford.com/item/3272BR.aspx

Then you take the transmission on and off several times (splitting the shim (they come in 10 layers) until you get it right.

Is that the correct way?

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Re: Ok.. I'm stuck..

Post by CudaMan » Sat Feb 29, 2020 9:44 am

Mark Strange
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Re: Ok.. I'm stuck..

Post by DanTreace » Sat Feb 29, 2020 4:26 pm

Robert

You need the set of four shims, they go under the 4 bolts that hold the magneto coil ring to the back of the block.


Lots of trial and error, even if you have done a few. Just take your time for a satisfactory alignment to get the gaps at the top and bottom of the flywheel magnets. Use of the gap gauge tool really is helpful. And have a nice mag ring restored, some are surface ground by the restorers so the mag ring iron casting is truly flat, that helps a bunch.

On final positioning, put the little ears outboard, they will snug against the felt seal around the block.
IMG_0533 (792x800).jpg
A lifting ring of chain suspended from the cherry picker helps the constant on and off it will take to measure the gaps. Get a set of brass feeler gauges too, as regular steel feeler will stick to the magnets. Be sure to index the location where you place the flywheel, it always goes back at that same spot each time you remove to add or subtract shims. With vertical mount, you will have the two pins in the flywheel in the same holes, and you will also tighten down the 4 mag ring bolts each time, and you will place at least 2 of the flywheel large bolts for being sure the interface of the crank and flywheel remains flat, as you turn the flywheel checking each magnet and coil face for gaps.
IMG_2278.JPG
Stay determined, and in a few hours you'll have a happy gap for a strong magneto, takes time to do it right ;)
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scan0001 (359x490) (2).jpg (147.7 KiB) Viewed 2010 times
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford

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Re: Ok.. I'm stuck..

Post by Mopar_man » Sat Feb 29, 2020 6:23 pm

Thanks Dan, now I know. I'll get a set of shims. There were none when I took it apart. Looks like an easy job except lifting the 85 pound transmission a hundred times. ha!!!


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Re: Ok.. I'm stuck..

Post by Allan » Sun Mar 01, 2020 5:42 am

I have a selection of crescent shaped one piece steel shims which space the whole coilplate closer to the magnets. Are they not used on US production? The teardrop ones are then used to make adjustments to even up the gap. I don't use them, preferring to cut my own with a slot in them so they can be fitted without taking the bolts out each time. That makes it much quicker and easier to make the adjustments, as the trans assembly does not need to be lifted each time to remove the bolts.

Hope this helps,
Allan from down under.

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