Engine Splash/Dust Pans: Yea or Nay?

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paddy1998
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Engine Splash/Dust Pans: Yea or Nay?

Post by paddy1998 » Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:21 pm

As I prepare to pull the engine on my 1923ish Touring, I've found one of the more difficult things to do has been removing the splash pans.

I have had no love for these things ever since I had to fight with them when removing the Pitman arm from the steering shaft.

My question is: are they really necessary?

Would it be a big mistake to leave them off?

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Re: Engine Splash/Dust Pans: Yea or Nay?

Post by Rich Eagle » Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:24 pm

I have planned to put them on my cars for 55 years. :oops:
They can't hurt.
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Re: Engine Splash/Dust Pans: Yea or Nay?

Post by paddy1998 » Tue Jun 23, 2020 1:28 pm

Rich Eagle wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:24 pm
I have planned to put them on my cars for 55 years. :oops:
They can't hurt.
Rich
:lol:

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Re: Engine Splash/Dust Pans: Yea or Nay?

Post by Rich Eagle » Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:00 pm

Well, I like the fact that they are original and have some to put on. The fact that they are often left off after work is done leaves me to believe they are a hassle. Some say they help cooling and keep things cleaner.
Some day I will find out.
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Re: Engine Splash/Dust Pans: Yea or Nay?

Post by Dropacent » Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:12 pm

Rich has it right, IMHO. I have a nice pair for each car, but they are in a tub marked with the car name. I like things complete, it’s a mental problem, I know. When I croak, the new caretaker can install them along with the shackles without grease fittings, the original oil fill cap, the original crank pulley, etc etc. Henry didn’t put much lipstick on the pig, and I don’t think the effort would have been worthwhile, if not needed. Most of us don’t have any idea of the roads traveled back then. Deplorable is an understatement. Can you picture an engine compartment filled up with mud, because that’s what it would have been like. Just MHO of course.


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Re: Engine Splash/Dust Pans: Yea or Nay?

Post by Rich Bingham » Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:30 pm

My opinion - When Model Ts were new, road conditions of the day made splash pans advisable, especially in mud. Today, when nearly everyone rolls mostly on pavement, not so much. With advancing improvements in the road system, splash pans became vestigial or non-existent on new cars before WW II. I have an idea your flivver may run a little cooler without them, but probably not enough to be a big deal. Splash pans can be great when you drop tools and fasteners though ! :lol:
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Re: Engine Splash/Dust Pans: Yea or Nay?

Post by CudaMan » Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:43 pm

So far, all of my driving has been on paved roads, so my splash pans are all painted up and sitting in the basement. :)
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Re: Engine Splash/Dust Pans: Yea or Nay?

Post by R.V.Anderson » Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:01 pm

The passenger side pan is a great place to leave the mint original steel '14 oil cap after you forget to put it back on. :oops: I've been way luckier than I deserve thataway.

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Re: Engine Splash/Dust Pans: Yea or Nay?

Post by DanTreace » Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:18 pm

Henry thought expense worth it so engine pans are on my T’s. Buttoned up for drives!

May help with airflow out the hood louvers too. Completes the engine compartment, otherwise when you lift the hood, the motor is hanging in space, with only the view of ugly pavement below :D
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Re: Engine Splash/Dust Pans: Yea or Nay?

Post by John kuehn » Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:41 pm

Probably after a few years more than a few T’s didn’t have the engine pans anymore. Folks were keeping them going the best they could with bailing wire and whatever they could find.
By the 40’s working on a T was made the easiest way it could be done and and other than that the rest didn’t mattter as much. I would imagine 60% of the pans were in the garage or thrown away.

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Re: Engine Splash/Dust Pans: Yea or Nay?

Post by DanTreace » Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:45 pm

John

May be true. IMO, if the pans are in place it’s either a nice un-touched original Ford, or the owner is picky on the details, which may be good for the rest of the chassis. ;)
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Re: Engine Splash/Dust Pans: Yea or Nay?

Post by Norman Kling » Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:52 pm

I used to have Model A's. I had a set on my Phaeton. Car ran fine with them. I do not have them on any of my T's and they run fine without them. On our modern roads, especially here in California where we seldom go out on rainy days, it isn't necessary. I can see how it might have kept mud from being sucked into the carburetor or all over the engine compartment, but I rarely drive in mud.
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Re: Engine Splash/Dust Pans: Yea or Nay?

Post by Susanne » Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:19 pm

It's all about the cooling... the pans are a PITA but they really do make a difference with the under the hood airflow... I pulled mine off, only to put them back on after my car became a teakettle... on the motometer it went below being permanently at the redline... when I put them back it returned to normal.

Say what you will, but the T was a pretty well engineered car, and were there not a need for those pans they ouwould have dispensed with them. After all - a muddy engine isn't that big of a deal, but an overheated motor is a HUGE deal...


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Re: Engine Splash/Dust Pans: Yea or Nay?

Post by Rich Bingham » Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:48 pm

Susanne wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:19 pm
. . . a muddy engine isn't that big of a deal...
Very true, but a muddy carburetor intake sorta is :lol: :lol:
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Re: Engine Splash/Dust Pans: Yea or Nay?

Post by Rich Eagle » Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:18 pm

While Ford used a pan on each side of the engine many other manufacturers use a complete belly pan to accomplish the same thing. As far back as the 1900s they were being used. My Maxwell had it's in place when I got it. It was filled with grease, oil, dirt, leaves and bugs. Cleaning it out I found broken windshield glass and a few miscellaneous nuts and bolts. It was kind of a treasure hunt. The greasy mix reached a level where water would float on it leaving a ring of lacy rusted metal. I have restored it and plan to install it on the same schedule as the Ford pans. My White Bus and '07 Buick had them originally but are long gone. Ford pans were high enough I suppose they didn't fill up.
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Re: Engine Splash/Dust Pans: Yea or Nay?

Post by Pops » Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:09 pm

Hello: I WOULD like to get a set for my 1924 Coupe as I do drive mine in the rain and on dirt roads,should help keep water,dirt.dust, and so on out of the carburetor. So if one of you procrastinators and/or any body that has a set and would care to part with them at a VERY low(almost give away-BLUE Light special)price please email me.They do not have to be in great shape just all in one piece,can be bent,torn,rusty or what have you.
Thank you
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Re: Engine Splash/Dust Pans: Yea or Nay?

Post by OilyBill » Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:13 pm

My 1917 REO has a giant belly pan that runs from the front crossmember, under the radiator, back to the transmission frame in the middle of the car. it also has 2 more, that interlock with the belly pan, and close up the sides of the frame, right up to the fenders. They obviously spent a lot of effort making and fitting them.
I think the explanation about keeping the mud out is probably correct. When you look at the photos of early motoring, the roads are below atrocious.

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Re: Engine Splash/Dust Pans: Yea or Nay?

Post by JohnH » Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:02 pm

Given the penny pinching design of the Model T, that suggests there's a need for the pans. Ford did not include unnecessary parts. I don't find them particularly awkward to remove and replace, and I'd have to wonder why anyone would constantly need to do so. Besides, if something falls off in the engine compartment when I'm driving, there's a good chance it will still be there when I get home.

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Re: Engine Splash/Dust Pans: Yea or Nay?

Post by TRDxB2 » Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:57 pm

When traveling the air in front of the radiator is at a high pressure and the air flow through it can be enhanced by creating a low pressure area in the engine compartment (i.e. Bernoulli Principle). The more air flow through the radiator the more it cools. The splash pans & hood are necessary to make a low pressure compartment and the louvers aid, not only as a method to expel the air but their shape also creates an external low pressure area pulling the air out of the engine compartment. Without them (one or all) air turbulence would result and the low pressure area wouldn't be as effective and the radiator's cooling would not be as efficient. When stopped its up to the fan to create the air flow for the creation of the low pressure zone. Obviously not as much when traveling.
And like in modern cars the hood and splash plans keep water, dirt and mud off the engine and out of filters.


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Re: Engine Splash/Dust Pans: Yea or Nay?

Post by Allan » Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:10 pm

They are still on Henrietta, which I too take to mean she has had a sheltered life. When I removed her carburetor for cleaning during her re-commissioning, there was 1/2" thick layer of grease/grit/straw etc accumulated on that side. It is still there, in keeping with her unmolested look.

I have them for the rest of my cars, but none are fitted. They really are a pain to work around.

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Re: Engine Splash/Dust Pans: Yea or Nay?

Post by Gonenorth » Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:56 am

Have them on my '26. No problems with cooling and I do believe it keeps some of the road dust and debris out of the engine compartment.

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Re: Engine Splash/Dust Pans: Yea or Nay?

Post by Steve Jelf » Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:20 am

I use mine. Installing or removing them is a minor inconvenience. As the other guys have said, Ford put them there for a reason.
My reasons:
1 I like to drive on country roads;
2 They often catch the tool or part that I drop so I don't have to crawl underneath trying to find it in the dirt and grass and rocks.
:)

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Re: Engine Splash/Dust Pans: Yea or Nay?

Post by Original Smith » Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:33 am

More research needs to be done on this subject. Just because the catalogs list them, doesn't mean they are 100% correct! I had to have a RH engine pan custom made for my 1925. They only used this style in 1925 and 1926 with the NH and L4 carburetors. Ford made a newer RH splash pan that worked on the standard carburetors and the vaporizer too.


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Re: Engine Splash/Dust Pans: Yea or Nay?

Post by Mikey1968 » Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:40 am

I'm no expert here by any means but I recall reading that the pans might help prevent the over-center steering hazard where the pitman arm rotates up and creates an instant reverse steering issue usually ending with badness.


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Re: Engine Splash/Dust Pans: Yea or Nay?

Post by John Codman » Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:05 am

My T didn't come with them, and frankly I didn't know that it was supposed to have them until I joined this forum. If somebody decides to give me a mint set, I'll put them on, but otherwise it's staying naked.


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Re: Engine Splash/Dust Pans: Yea or Nay?

Post by Terry_007 » Wed Jun 24, 2020 12:16 pm

Not sure I agree with the cooling thoughts for the earlier cars without louvers in the hood. Don't have them in my 14 - yes, I know it's incorrect, but never had an overheating problem or issues with dirt, mud, etc. etc. When I decide I need some judging points I'll put them back on, along with my 4-ball carb.
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Re: Engine Splash/Dust Pans: Yea or Nay?

Post by Mark Gregush » Wed Jun 24, 2020 12:43 pm

"earlier cars without louvers in the hood." Every thing I have read indicates that the louvers were added in 1915 when the horn got moved under the hood so people could hear it, not for cooling. ;)
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

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Re: Engine Splash/Dust Pans: Yea or Nay?

Post by 2nighthawks » Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:37 pm

Terry - I might add something that sort of backs up what Susanne Rohner and Frank Brandi had to say above:

This is just a Marine Corps experience from years ago that I like to relate, however, I believe it is appropriate here:

While on training maneuvers at Camp McCoy in Wisconsin on a very, VERY hot and humid summer day, as "company driver" for my unit, I was hauling all the "gear" in a tandem axle 6x6, driving "cross-country" at slow marching pace speed. Every time the gunnery sgt. saw the closed louvered side panels on either side of the hood, he'd scream at me to "open those #*%*!# hood side panels on that #*%*!# truck"! And every time I was out of the gunnys sight, I'd close them up again. At the next reserve meeting, I called Gunny Sharp aside and assured him that I was NOT in the habit of disobeying orders, but I asked him to look at something in the official USMC manual for that particular 6x6 which stated words to the effect that...."louvered hood side panels are to be kept closed in hot weather to prevent overheating engine". He then looked up at me and stated, "well, I guess you sure as hell know your job Marine", as he sort of "grunted" and turned around and walked away! I guess that's about as close to a "compliment" as I ever got in the USMCR!

A few years later, as a detail draftsman, working for a team of International Harvester engineers a the IH Engineering and Research Center in Hinsdale, Illinois, one of many things I learned from those mechanical engineers had to do with something that I've never forgotten. In designing one particular farm machine, IH engineers determined that some percentage (don't remember exactly, but I think it was something like 20%) of the cooling of that water-cooled engine came just from the "air wash" over both sides of the engine, which, accordingly, became a factor when considering design of the enclosure around the engine.

Again, I think both these points I just tried to relate tend to back up the comments above that relate to Model T Ford pans and whatever effect they might have had on cooling. FWIW,.....harold


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Re: Engine Splash/Dust Pans: Yea or Nay?

Post by Terry_007 » Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:00 pm

Wish I could relay a similar Navy experience but everything I did for 23 years didn't involve engines - with our without louvers. I never over-heated my typewriter. I'll leave the pans out though, and hopefully Henry doesn't mind the flow-through ventilation.
Terry

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Re: Engine Splash/Dust Pans: Yea or Nay?

Post by Susanne » Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:18 pm

"Compliment"? Coming from a Gunny, that's high praise... especially the grunt. :lol:


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Re: Engine Splash/Dust Pans: Yea or Nay?

Post by 2nighthawks » Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:34 pm

Susanne - Yeah,....I often wondered, and sort of wanted to ask him ( but didn't have the nerve),...."hey Gunny,....are you like THAT at home too"? :roll:


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Re: Engine Splash/Dust Pans: Yea or Nay?

Post by otrcman » Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:42 pm

My '12 has the engine pans installed. But for reasons a little different from what others have stated.

The exhaust pipe necessarily runs very close to the floorboards, beneath the passenger's feet. I believe that the engine pans increase air flow around the hogs head area. That flow keeps the floorboards a little cooler where the exhaust pipe is so close.

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