Best blue for 1912, final question at the bottom!

[RGould1910]

Getting ready to paint my 1912 roadster and want to go with a very dark midnight blue. Many photos I've seen of restored cars don't have as dark a blue as I want. I'm hoping some members might chime with photos and suggestions..

[Tbird]

Richard,
I've seen a couple of Scott Rosenthal's cars at the MTFCA museum here in Indiana. His color on his 1912 Town Car is really dark.
Mike

[Russ_Furstnow]

1985 Mercedes Benz, Dark Blue, Code 904. This is the best "Midnight blue" I've seen. I hope this helps, Russ Furstnow

[Fire_chief]

I saw this used on a Fiat. It was darker than the Mercedes blue.

[Steve Jelf]

Bruce describes it as so dark that in the shade it looks black.

[John Heaman]

A friend of mine owns this 1912, and it is such a dark blue it does indeed look black. The fenders and running boards are black, so as you can see there is not a lot of contrast!

[John iaccino]

I use Rustoleum Sailor Blue for touchup. Perfect!

[Roger Byrne]

Here are links to a couple MTFCA Forum discussions about the "Midnight Blue" paint codes from a few years ago . . . with photos. As Russ posted above, I think #DB-904 is the best match to Ford's original "Midnight Blue".

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/125711.html

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/33 ... 1357355430

Below are a few photos showing my 1911 Open Runabout in various light conditions. My car was painted using a color code from 1985 Mercedes Benz which was called "Dark Blue" # DB-904. The color is a very deep blue in bright light and looks almost black in low light.

[Russ_Furstnow]

The March 1911 Ford Times magazine has a color drawing of a 1911 Torpedo in blue. Interestingly enough, it is clearly a dark blue and not close to black. I know it is a drawing, but it is indicative of the fact that the cars appeared to be more "blue" than black. Just my thoughts. Russ Furstnow

[Lgitts]

this is the formula for the PPG= Deltron 2000 blue, which is the Mercedes-Benz midnight bluel
The typed numbers are for (1) qt of base color. It mixes 1:1 with reducer for spray application. Apply over G-7 (almost black sealer)

[Original Smith]

These dark blues are most likely available in states other than California?

[Steve Jelf]

I expect you can get a paint mixed in any color you want, even in California.

A few years ago I went to three paint stores in Carson, Torrance and Gardena looking for lacquer thinner. They all told me it couldn't be sold in California anymore. Then I went into the Home Depot at Lomita Boulevard and Crenshaw and found — guess what — shelves filled with quart and gallon cans of lacquer thinner! Some stories of "banned in California" are true. Others are pure baloney.

I suspect this was shot with a camera. I would like to see if a scanned version would be better lit.

[KWTownsend]

I would be interested to see what color that Benjamin Moore 1911-1913 body blue is. Any idea what year are those color chips were produced?

Though the DB904 makes for a very pretty blue car, I think the DB332 replicates the original color more closely. I chose the Diamont Uno 4635.
When people ask, "Is that black or blue?" I say, "Thank you."

From what I understand, the Diamont Uno is not available in California. Steven Chase has created a color that is good. Maybe he will share his creation.

: ^ )

Keith

[Steve Jelf]

Any idea what year are those color chips were produced?

The picture file is labeled 1910.

[Rich P. Bingham]

Any idea what year are those color chips were produced?

The picture file is labeled 1910.

The color chip sample board is certainly not from the year 1910 - I presume it is meant to represent colors used in 1910.

I don't want to seem "impossible", but seeking the actual, equivalent and authentic paint for a 112 year old automobile is like hunting for a unicorn. For one thing, the materials and methods used were entirely different. Even the pigment stuffs are now very different. Note the formula on the printed page above which calls for "phthalto [sic] blue". Phthalo cyanine pigment was not available commercially until the late 1930s.

Some have been able to resort to original surviving samples from "protected" areas (underside of hoods, inside seat frames, etc.) and while these provide the best authentic point of reference for matching modern materials, although protected from sun-fade, the fact that paint films made with natural drying oils and resins darken considerably as they age, and even more so when held away from natural ambient light seems to be generally overlooked, as is the possibility of color changes due to environmental factors (exhaust fumes, gasoline vapors, industrial atmospheres, etc.)

I think our guardians of authenticity do a very fine job of maintaining the standards for those of us who wish to maintain the historical accuracy of our Model Ts. "Purists" can take a lot of guff !

[Dropacent]

I didn’t read most of the above, but from my experience with other antiques of the era, original samples of these bodies was likely darkened a lot over 110+ years. It’s likely not the paint but the body varnish ( clear) that has darkened from age and environment. These bodies were still painted like carriages of the day, and were dull color until the last coat( body varnish) I’d agree with Russ that it was probably a blue similar to the flyer originally. I guess it all depends on what you want. Something to look like it’s new, something aged, etc. likely a correct color will never be agreed on, unlike modern autos. . JMHO I would ask, why paint something almost black, whether green or blue. I don’t think anyone originally asked for “ an almost black, blue”. Have you ever seen the restoration of a very ,very old painting ? It’s amazing when the environmental damage is removed.

[RGould1910]

Thanks to everyone for the valuable input. I will go with Mercedes 904. Final question. Which black should I use with the 904 for the fenders?

[hull 433]

Ford's dark blue has a very interesting context: it was influenced by the 1911 Packards, painted black, with Packard blue bodies and gray wheels. This immediately prompted a rash of copycats across the industry: body blue, black fenders and gray wheels became standard, from Pathfinder to Buick and EMF. Ford adopted the style in its own way, using blue striped in gray and a black frame.

That 1910 paint chip card that Steve posted is from 1910. It's in the collection of the Hagley Library.

[Dropacent]

What Rich said IMHO. Ford copied Packard? I don’t think so.

[hull 433]

We forget how fashionable Ford cars were in the early years, and that up to through mid 1913 they were very much abreast of the mainstream style trends. Consider Ford's November 1911 literature was showing the latest style of smooth-sided, fore-door bodies. Same thing for the 1911 Torpedos: totally stylish, rakish cars.

Ford doesn't really leave mainstream styling until logistical issues with mass production compel the issue from 1914 on, but by that time their cars are so successful that they essentially generate their own weather.

[Dollisdad]

That is all interesting information Slim. It makes me think of influences that I normally wouldn’t otherwise. It certainly makes sense that the train of logic would proceed in that fashion. Thanks so much for posting this. It certainly gives the rest of us something to think about.

[hull 433]

Light grey stripes on the body and wheels. Sometimes body molding was "picked out" with black, but an early 1910 in original paint I've seen doesn't have any and you could avoid it too.

[Original Smith]

The lacquer thinner sold at Home Depot is not lacquer thinner! It says it is, but it isn't. Take a wiff, and you can tell. It pays to know what you are doing! What their label says is incorrect.

[ThreePedalTapDancer]

None of todays lacquer thinners are as high grade as the reducer thinners for automobile paint due to the VOC laws. They work fine for most thinning jobs, but I use proper reducer grade solvents for my auto paint reducing.