Canadian Production

[Simon Henderson]

Hi guys
I have a RHD 1912 Canadian production roadster with cylinder block stamped # C320 here in New Zealand. Can anyone help with a date of when my cylinder block could have been cast? There does not appear to be a casting date on the block in any of the usual places that you would expect it to be.
However, cast below the "Ford" script on the left hand side of the block is a relatively clear "MADE IN U.S.A." and not "MADE IN CANADA" as expected.
Some sources have suggested a casting date of early September 1912, others have suggested December 1912 into January 1913 and another source has suggested May 1913.

The car has the "double bead" on all four fenders as is with pre 1913 Canadian cars and has the small "bill" on the front fenders.

Any ideas or clues would be wonderful.

Thanks in advance for your help

Cheers Simon

[Pep C Strebeck]

C320 would be May-June, 1913. When you say "relatively" clear where it says MADE IN USA, does it look as though it has been ground off/down? Highland Park was supplying the engines to Ford of Canada until about 1919, and they all said MADE IN USA, which was then ground off/down once in Canada for assembly. Canadian produced engines did not start until being produced and marked MADE IN CANADA until late into 1919. Here is a link to a thread on the old Forum discussing Canadian engines and serial numbers.

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/140611.html

[Kerry]

Canada starting to cast their own blocks in late 1919 was and is a bit of a myth, blocks do turn up for early 1918 with "Made in Canada" on them. I have seen one a few weeks older than this one.

[Luxford]

Simon, I presume you have read the link posted by Joseph and Ray Green's posts. If you have you will have noticed that Ray's engine Number is C323 just 3 away from your block and it has a casting date which is 3-18-13. So I think you could comfortably declare your motor was made at the same time.

[Colin Mavins]

could you post a picture my late 1912 touring which is a Canadian car and all original has 12 rear fenders and 13 front fenders you may have a 13 car with 12 fenders

[J1MGOLDEN]

So, what are the chances of finding a good 1926 Canadian Bock to rebuilt for a Canadian car in the USA?

[Wayne Sheldon]

Sorry I missed this thread a few weeks ago. Appears to be pretty well set that Canadian C320s are well into 1913 model year.
Canadian blocks still being cast in the USA at that time would follow USA casting patterns and molds. 1912 was a transitional year for engine block casting with at least five significant variations in the blocks. I haven't been able to sort half of them out myself.
What I know, is that the earliest 1912 model year blocks still had the embossment for the serial number down low on the right side behind the timing gear.
Early in the model year, likely still in 1911 calendar year, that embossment was eliminated (soon to be replaced by a strengthening gusset!) and the serial number was moved up to the left side water jacket, and casting dates were added. But this modification was not done smoothly or in a single step.
Some of the earlier ones had no embossment at all for the serial number. Casting dates may or may not be there, and sometimes if there, barely show. Sometimes a space was smoothed out for the serial number, sometimes the number was simply stamped somewhere above or forward from the water inlet.
Then, for a short while, an embossment was added behind the water inlet. Casting dates may be forward of the water inlet, or above it.
Finally, the early version of the embossment we all came to know and love was added, and with several changes over the years, usually to enlarge it but sometimes just a variant shape, came to be. Until about 1920 on the USA blocks, the casting date was then behind the serial number embossment.
As if all that wasn't enough? For awhile during 1912, a "wrinkle" was added over the big timing gear. It apparently was used from some mold patterns for quite awhile, but was never on all blocks. That "wrinkle was supposedly to improve oiling of the timing gears, but only was made for a short while.
Before 1912 model year came to its end, and production began on the early 1913 models, the block had pretty well settled in to its familiar pre-starter style. Except for some changes in the water jacket which among other things eliminated a "lip" at the rear of the block, and replaced the three pipe threaded plugs alongside the valve chamber with the punch-in Welch plugs. Those changes occurred late 1913 model year, or early 1914 model year.

So, 1912 engine blocks can be somewhat dated even without a serial number or legible casting date just by looking at the variations and locations for a serial number, or lack thereof, and that odd wrinkle over the timing gears. I am sure that several of the variations overlapped throughout the year of 1912. However, there was a tendency toward early, mid, and later 1912 mode; blocks.

[Allan]

Wayne, the engine I found for my 1912 chocolate van is B 5xx The date stamped into the transmission shaft was 9 26 12. As far as I know the C prefix to Canadian engines did not start until May 1913 when the plant was fired up, so a C numbered block would be from a 1913 model car.

Some years ago a big collection of T stuff was auctioned off when the collector/restorer went into care. He had all the mechanicals to build an early 1911 car, but come auction time, the volunteers had hauled it all out of the shed and the parts were scattered all through the various lots. The intriguing part was the engine block. It was an early 1911 casting, verified by the casting date, but, i bore a C prefix 4 digit engine number. A plausible explanation may be that this block was in storage in the USA and was shipped to Canada for their startup. From buried in the back of a stockpile of USA castings, it ended up on the top of the heap in Canada when unloaded. Who really knows?

Allan from down under.