Mounting tires on not-demountable wooden fellows / rims

[rainer]

Hello.
I noticed today that one of my tires started to decompose where it comes out out of the rim. It was also very brittle and I could see the carcass when lifting it. So this tires are really old, have name OLYMPIC 30 x 3 1/2 on them. Don't know when they stopped production, but that old. It's high time for replacement.

I got it off the rim and I will take Riverside ones from UK now. A complete set with new tubes is less than 1000 EUR, including taxes.

At the moment I am restoring the steel rim. I brushed off the rust, now I sprayed on Owatrol oil. This oil penetrates rust and then hardens on air, so rust is stopped. As it can be painted with synthetic-resin varnish, I will apply some black paint to it as another layer of protection next weekend, and in 2 weeks I will mount the new tires.

My question:
Shall I dry-mount the tires, or can I use some lube as all tire-workshops use when mounting tires on felloes?

I am not sure about that. A dry-mount will for sure be lots harder, so I am afraid I will scratch a lot of paint. Using some of this tire-lube (let's name it so), will make the tire slip easier over the rim.

Has somebody experience with mounting tires on the car? Getting it off was not so extremely bad. Three mounting irons did the job well. Mounting the new ones should be easier, they are not so old and stiff. But I an unsure on using lube or not.

[Jones in Aiken SC]

Smear some Crisco on the beads. The white coagulated stuff, hydrogenated vegetable oil, not the animal lard.

[rainer]

You mean this white stuff used by tire-workshops? They apply it with a brush.

I never heard the name before.

[RajoRacer]

This is some o the best lube you can use - https://www.nomartirechanger.com/sp-lube-pint.html.

I realize you're overseas so shipping is an issue - RUGLYDE is another good product - ask your local truck tire shop for a handful out of their lube bucket.

[rainer]

This is some o the best lube you can use - https://www.nomartirechanger.com/sp-lube-pint.html.

I realize you're overseas so shipping is an issue - RUGLYDE is another good product - ask your local truck tire shop for a handful out of their lube bucket.

Thanks for this link and the suggestion for getting some from a tire-workshop.
So I do not have to worry about a slipping tire inside the steel rim? (This is my biggest fear.)

[signsup]

I'm a demountable guy, so have no experience in this area. To answer the OPS question Crisco is a trade mark for kitchen lard. The plastic garbage bag method worked for me on one clincher install with no lubes or powders needed, use the garbage bag as s lippery barrier between rin and tire. But, if I were to use some grease or slime, I would try to limit it's surface area on the tire to be inside of the tire bead. Use it to aid in splling over the rim, but not have it on the outer bead to possibly allow for slipping when installed. I presume that fit is so tight that cleaning up any lube or grease after instal is not an option.

[Erik Johnson]

My father and I have never used tire lube. However, we lightly dust either the inner tube or the interior of the tire with tire talc.

Also, it is substantially easier to mount a clincher tire with the wheel on the car. Scroll down to Royce Peterson's posts in this thread:

https://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/1 ... 1325091009

[Steve Jelf]

Clincner tires are mounted more easily with the wheel on the car than off. Short irons are not your friends. They make it the job from Hell. I use two-foot irons, much better. I prefer lubricating the tire with baby powder rather than something wet.

Turn the wheel with the valve stem at the bottom. Let the the car down just far enough to hold the bottom of the tire in place.Starting at the top, pry the tire off the rim. Pry off both beads together. Raise the car and pull out the defunct tire. Putting on the new tire, inflate the tube only enough to keep it in the tire. Insert the valve stem in its hole. Let the car down just enough to hold the rim and tire together. Starting near the bottom, pry the tire onto the rim, both beads together. Inflate the tire enough to press the clincher beads into place. Let air out until there is no pressure. Inflate the tire to operating pressure (about 450 kPa).

A little more about clincher tires is here;
https://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG127.clinchers.html

[rainer]

Thanks for this wonderful information.

I will buy some baby powder for mounting.

Is it normal that rims are rusty inside? I brushed off all lose rust, then I sprayed it with Owatrol oil. This oil penetrates rust and hardens on air. So rust should be stopped. As Owatrol can be painted with synthetic-resin varnish, I will then paint in black.
Should this give a good protection against further rusting?

I will also put the self-made flap onto the rim first. It was there and it was made from an old tube cut in half. Or leave it away?

[RajoRacer]

I attempted the garbage bag one time many years ago - took me more time to retrieve the shredded bag pieces out of the rim than to mount the tire - might be good for straight sided tires but I had no luck with clinchers.

Everyone one has their own method for mounting - "practice makes perfect" but I don't need the practice !

[rainer]

I attempted the garbage bag one time many years ago - took me more time to retrieve the shredded bag pieces out of the rim than to mount the tire - might be good for straight sided tires but I had no luck with clinchers.

I watched the related YouTube video where one shows this plastic bag method. He explicitly mentioned it works only with de-mounted wheels, and IIRC, it was a while with wire spokes. So no clincher tires then. Aren't this wheels with flat-sided rims?

I had immediately the same thoughts - how to get all this plastic garbage out afterwards.
No, I am very happy with my Lizzy. At the beginning it was a lot of work to get things done, but now it is wonderful.

Thanks for all your comments!

[Ed Fuller]

A little tire mounting lube on the beads will help some. The purpose of using talc or baby powder when mounting tube type tires is to prevent the tube from chafing or sticking to the inside of the tire.

When mounting a new tube and tire on a rim, I have found that it helps to put zip ties spaced evenly around the tire and tighten them just enough to keep the beads together and it will help keep the tube in place. It makes it easier to pry both beads over the rim at the same time. Once the tire is on the rim, you can cut the zip ties and pull them out.

I’ve never had any luck using the trash bag method but I have heard it works for some people.

[rainer]

Ed Fuller,

you pry both sides over the rim at once? I imagine how I will do that with three 12" mounting irons...
Hope new tires are more elastic.
Simply hook irons into the front side of the rim border and then pry the tire over step by step? Like on bicycle?

Getting off the old tire was hard work. Perhaps because it lost all elasticity and was stuck in a thin layer of rust, too. And I possibly started too gently.
But for getting both beads over the rim I will try to get some tire lube from a tire-workshop.

Longstone Tyres shows that they push in the valve stem to give the beads sufficient room to slip in. They also warn from doing what I saw in the removed tire, to make a cutout behind the beads for the stem. (I would never ever think about cutting away parts of a tire.)
Does pushing back the valve stem work well? (Question might appear a bit foolish, bit I never changed a tire on a T before, only on bicycles.)

[Rod]

I use these to protect the painted rims while using tire irons. Install the tire and tube as One Unit, starting at the valve stem and working away from the stem. The tube should have enough air in it to prevent tube twist or pinch.

https://www.2040-parts.com/motion-pro-w ... -i1691288/

[SurfCityGene]

I simply use a bit of liquid detergent soap with a dash of water.. With the wheel on the car I jack it up just so the tire with the Tube Slightly inflated Inside the tire will slide under the rim. Then lower the wheel down onto the tire with the Valve Stem Inserted. This holds the tire in place as you work around the wheel with the tire irons. I'm old er but must be stronger than others cause I use the motorcycle irons about 12 inches long to slide Both sides of the tire on the rim at the same time.
A 30 x 3 is normally more difficult than the 30 x 3 1/2 like you have. I use a piece of plastic bottle or other container under the irons to protect the paint. Some tires made by different mfg's or times are harder to mount than others.

It's also a lot more fun when you do this on the side of the freeway! DON"T PINCH the Tube!

[Flivver]

I attempted the garbage bag one time many years ago - took me more time to retrieve the shredded bag pieces out of the rim than to mount the tire - might be good for straight sided tires but I had no luck with clinchers.

These guys recently tried the garbage bag trick on Clinchers, and had the shredded bag problem too. A tougher 'contractor' bag might help. But I have not tried it yet.

https://youtu.be/IoSnWxQFQN4?si=m9SdRrUBtJnOqeb-

[Russ T Fender]

The sun is your friend. Set the tire out in the sun and let it get hot. Makes it flexible and relatively easy to mount. Of course
I live in Florida so I do have an advantage!

[Steve Jelf]

I'll repeat. Short irons (only 12") make the job harder than it should be. I use 24" irons because of that.


https://www.harborfreight.com/24-inch-g ... =tire+iron

[Wayne Sheldon]

Personally, I prefer to not use soap or talc when mounting tires, and will attempt to mount them without at first. However, if a tire is stiff enough and doesn't cooperate? I will sometimes use a small amount of kitchen/dish liquid soap. Soap or talc can make the tire more likely to slip around the rim in the future and shear the valve stem.

I have used the plastic bag method once. Actually, for me it worked quite well. I did have to pull the plastic bag out in little pieces, but had no trouble doing so after the tire was on the rim and before I aired it up. It was some years ago, and a then older tire that was a bit stiff and a very tight fit. After several minutes of it refusing to slip on even with a bit of dish soap, I got the bag, and had the tire on in a few minutes with no real fight. However, me? I don't always have large enough plastic bags handy, and don't bother getting them just for the occasional tire.

Rust commonly forms inside between the tire and the rim. If the car and wheels are exposed to water, rain, car washing, puddles, etc, etc, etc? Water will hydro-blast in and work its way inside. Once inside, in a tightly enclosed protected area, it doesn't want to come out and evaporate. Instead, it works its way around and around inside, eventually working through the paint, and attacking the steel rim, resulting in sometimes very heavy rust. Cleaning the rust, and coating it as you are planning to does help for the future.
However, if your car is exposed to water often (maybe if it rains a lot where you are and drive through lots of puddles?)? The rust will eventually return.

[Aussie16]

I use these to protect the painted rims while using tire irons. Install the tire and tube as One Unit, starting at the valve stem and working away from the stem. The tube should have enough air in it to prevent tube twist or pinch.

https://www.2040-parts.com/motion-pro-w ... -i1691288/
Rod, I have never seen this product before. Very practical for mounting tyres to protect new paint.
Over the years I have refine my tyre mounting technique.
I like to do them on the car much the same as Steve mentioned above.
I also use talcum powder to help them "slide" over the rim.
Always good discussion here about tyre mounting, ultimately everyone works out best what works for them.
Most importantly is you have good tyres tubes and rims to start with so you dont have to do it all again.
Often not mentioned here is to check your tyre pressures each time before you head off on a tour. They do tend to have a habit of leaking while sitting around?

[Erik Johnson]

RE: tire talc

Tire talc is exactly what the name implies - talcum which is a mineral.

I don't know about Austria but, in the U.S., baby powder sold in stores is no longer talcum. It is corn starch.

It's difficult find genuine talcum body powder in the personal hygiene section of stores in the U.S.

[Steve Jelf]

Anything wrong with corn starch?

[Allan]

The Olympic Tyre and Rubber Co advised all old Car clubs of their intention to cease production of their 30 x 3.5" BE tyres in the early 1970's. Anyone with funds to spare ordered some to be put aside for spares. Their longevity is legendary.

Allan from down under.

[Allan]

Quality Blockley tyres from England may not be as expensive in Europe. It might be well worth your enquiry to get a price on those rather than Wards Riversides, which will already have transport charges from USA built into the UK price.

Tyre fitting is a specialist job in the real world. Who am I to say the lube they use is not suitable for use on Beaded Edge tyres. If modern tyres under the loads imposed on them by the high powered cars of today do not slip on the rim, I can't see a T producing the power to break them free on a BE rim, provided you run the appropriate high pressure.

The cut tube rubber liner around the rim is a good idea. If you cut the liner from a 24" bicycle tube or from the outside diameter of a 13" car tube, it will be a snap fit on the rim and will not get out of place when levering the tyre in place.

I too am in the two beads at once clamp. Just follow Steve's pointers. Right at the very end, one bead may pop on before the other. Just be careful getting that last bit of the other bead over the rim edge. Don't pinch the tube.

You are wise not to cut/notch the bead on new tyres. It was only necessary with old tyres with way wider beads than those available today, and only then if you were trying to mount one side of the tyre before the other.

Allan from down under.

[Erik Johnson]

RE: "Anything wrong with corn starch?"

Use corn starch to thicken gravy or to make wallpaper paste.

[Steve Jelf]

Quality Blockley tyres from England may not be as expensive in Europe.

Considering the base price per tire the difference between Blockleys and Wards is less than $10. It's the shipping from England that makes Blockleys more expensive in the USA. I would be interested to know the costs of shipping to Austria from London and from Long Beach.

[rainer]

Hi, Steve.
I ordered a complete set of Wards Riverside (2 off 30x3" and 2 off 30x3 1/2") with new tubes last week at LongStone Tyres.

For everything (goods + shipment + customs/VAT) I payed in total 916,00 Euro. (Approx the same number in USD right now.)

On Monday the shipment will arrive, I already got the notification from DHL.

I cannot tell you the part of shipping cost, nowhere showing up separately.

But you simply could visit their online store http://www.longstonetyres.co.uk , select your country+currency, and then choose the typed. You see the price including shipping etc.

[Norman Kling]

I find that mounting is quite easy with new tires. You put the tube in first. Cut a small notch in each bead where the tube goes through the tire. Put talk inside the tire and nothing on the outside or the rim. Setting the tire and tube in the sun on a warm day helps too. put just enough air in the tube to keep it straight inside the tire but does not spread the beads. put the valve at the top and start it through the rim. then work both ways with tire irons alternating. hold those irons in place and put a third one farther around the rim Work both ways from the valve. The irons should not damage the paint because they work from the inside prying the two sides of the tire over the rim. Should go on quite easy with new tires.
Norm

[rainer]

Hi, Norman.

today the new tyres arrived, so I will start mounting next weekend. This weekend painted the rim in black (also inner side) as rust protection. I think it will have dried enough on next weekend.

Thanks for sharing your way of mounting tyres.

I am a bit surprised about your suggestion to cut a little notch into the beads, because Longstone Tyres explicitly warns from doing that. Longstone Tyres instead suggests to push the valve-stem into the wooden felloe until only the metal thread (for the robber cap) is reaching out. This shall give sufficient room for the bead(s) to slide into their place in the rim. When beads are in place, they pull it out again, because then there is sufficient room for it. This they do after the entire tyre was pryed over the rim, when they see that the bead is not fitting properly in the rim.

Though, a closer look on my old tyre also shows little sickle-shaped grooves in the beads, approx. 5mm deep in the middle, 20mm long,

Hope this works as expected. I will try forst without cutouts, if it doesn't work, I will have to do them.

[Allan]

Rainer, cutting the notches in the beads is not necessary with new tyres. The width of the beads and the valve stem is still way under the width of the rims, although I have no experience with 3" wide front tyres. Old tyres had much wider feet on the beads, but cutting the notches had more to do with the fitting technique than having room. Some will say it is done to protect the rubber valve stems on tubes, but old time tubes had metal stems. With today's narrow feet on the beads, even rubber stems are nowhere near the bead when the tyre is fitted.

Some fit the tyres putting one side on the rim first. Then when they pull the unfitted side out to fit the valve stem down the rim hole, it pulls the already fitted side of the tyre over the valve stem hole, making it difficult to get the valve stem in. Hence the notching.

Modern tyres are softer and more manageable, especially with summer heat. I put the tube in the tyre and inflate it just enough to hold its shape. Then I fit the rim over the valve stem and use a clamp or two to hold BOTH beads and the valve stem in place on the rim. Then BOTH beads are levered onto the rim at the same time. A little tyre fitting lubricant helps. This works with expensive flaps in place or with a simple rim liner fitted in the rim before the tyre is fitted. This same method can be used on non-demountable wheels on early cars, but you don't even need the clamps. Simply turn the wheel on the car until the valve stem hole is at the bottom, line up the valve stem and the two beads in the rim and lower the car to hold things in place. Then lever on as above.

I refitted a new Blockley tyre for a fried today. The metal valve stem previously fitted in a once rubber stemmed tube, was a bit loose in the tube. Half a turn on the nut and the leak went away. The width of the two beads and the metal stem was 1/2" less than the gap between the rolled in edges of the rim. When inflated that gap would have been way wider again, so even a modern rubber valve stem would be nowhere near the edges of the tyre bead.

Hope this helps, Allan from down under.