model B Ford update

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KimDobbins
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model B Ford update

Post by KimDobbins » Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:44 pm

The 1904 model B Ford project has taken longer then i thought it would. Back when this car last ran it had only low gear and was one running on one cylinder. So, its taken a while to discover and sort out all the issues. The motor is done, the ignition is still a bit cranky, but that should get sorted out this week. The transmission is all over the work bench, most of the new parts are made, im still waiting on one new fiber spacer. The transmission suffered from a few badly worn parts, some incorrectly repaired parts from back in the day, and one part was just plane wrong. Most of the knowledgeable people on model B Fords have passed away and they left little written knowledge behind. I got lucky and found most of the original B drawings at the Bensen Ford research center. That allowed me to get all the worn transmission parts accurately reproduced. Im hoping for completion by May of this year.


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Re: model B Ford update

Post by KimDobbins » Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:48 pm

Pictures of the engine and some of the new transmission parts.
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KimDobbins
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Re: model B Ford update

Post by KimDobbins » Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:51 pm

The gear reduction motor works great to turn the fairly tight motor over at 32 RPM.

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Re: model B Ford update

Post by Rob » Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:56 pm

Kim, looks like it’s coming along great! Thank you for the update.


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Re: model B Ford update

Post by KimDobbins » Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:05 pm

This is the high speed cone that the clutch fingers ride on. I don’t know where the old one came from. But as you can see, it’s different from the new correct one.
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Re: model B Ford update

Post by Wayne Sheldon » Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:05 pm

Looking better and better!
Do we get to know who owns this car now? I guess the reason I am curious (beyond the I like to know who has some of the more interesting cars?), is that I can see you are putting a lot of time, effort, and doubtless money into this project! While there would be a lot of personal satisfaction working on such a rare and significant piece of automotive history, I do hope there is more than that in it for you!
It would be incredible if this car could be taken to the London to Brighten Veteran Car Run! Its provenance should be no problem for the pre-'05 qualification.

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Re: model B Ford update

Post by Rich Eagle » Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:11 pm

What a treat!
Best of luck.
Rich
When did I do that?


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Re: model B Ford update

Post by W Austen » Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:28 pm

Back in the early 70's I worked for Ed Towe in Montana, we had a heck of a time getting his Model B running. Most of his engine was done by Wil Faulstick, which may have been the problem. The car did run.? I hope you have better luck.
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Re: model B Ford update

Post by Joe Bell » Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:58 pm

Don Tyler in Amsten Ohio has a Model B that was his father's car years back, he rebuilds the early Fords and other early car engines, so maybe this may helps you on some thing. Joe

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Re: model B Ford update

Post by Rob » Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:23 pm

Joe, Don has his dad’s early Ford and its a great running car. However, it’s a Model C. There are only a handful of Bs remaining, and I don’t know of any running at the moment. The one at THF was running a few years ago, but I believe the transmission is in need of repair.
Rob


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Re: model B Ford update

Post by Wayne Sheldon » Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:34 pm

Hey there Bill Austen! I remember Wil Faulstick talking about working on that model B for Ed Towe. As I recall, he said the car was an intact survivor car in the early '50s, when a previous owner sent the engine out to a machine shop to be rebuilt. Somehow, the original engine was lost by the shop, likely sent out as junk. So Ed Towe got the car as a decent and solid original car with no engine (if I recall correctly?). Wil said he pretty much built the engine from scratch, using copies of Ford's original drawings that had come from the Ford archives. This, well before the archives became the Benson Library. I did get to see the model B, with its hood open showing Wil Faulstick's beautiful workmanship at the Towe Museum in Sacramento Califunny about 25 years ago. I also was fortunate to be able to meet Ed Towe on a VMCCA Nickel Age tour in 2006. I think it was one of the last major tours he drove a car on.
Wil Faulstick was an incredible machinist! He literally could make almost anything! Quite a few members of the Bay Area Horseless Carriage Club got cars back on the road because of his skills at repairing the unrepairable.
I wonder who has that model B now?


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Re: model B Ford update

Post by W Austen » Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:57 pm

Wayne, The Towe B is owned by a well known member of the Early Ford Registry here in California. I own a model N ford that Wil had and restored. He sold it to Broadway Motors in Oakland years before I got it.
Austen


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Re: model B Ford update

Post by KimDobbins » Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:26 pm

Interesting info Bill and Wayne, I've seen that B at the sac auto museum a couple of times. I got permission from the owner to remove the floor boards and take pictures. It helped a lot in determining my transmission issues. I am fortunate that the car I'm working on has most of its correct original parts. I was particularly concerned about the original radiator. One trip to the radiator shop has made it leak free! I've heard the same story about the engine in the Sac B car, it's a great looking car, well worth a visit to the Sac museum. There are also 2 model K Fords there.

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Re: model B Ford update

Post by Rob » Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:57 pm

Kim, an interesting side note to the K roadster (of the two you wrote about). It was purchased new in Omaha, and escorted the German entry part of the way across Nebraska during the 1908 NY to Paris race. It is also the K that was shipped to England in the 50’s for the English Anglo tour. It’s a well travelled Ford.

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Re: model B Ford update

Post by jmc » Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:57 pm

I'm sure there are a lot of others like me that appreciate the info and pictures. Please keep them coming.

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Re: model B Ford update

Post by david_dewey » Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:04 pm

Yes, keep the thread going, this is fascinating!
T'ake care,
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Re: model B Ford update

Post by Mark Nunn » Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:12 pm

Where is the Sac Museum? There is a SAC (Strategic Air Command) Museum in Nebraska but that has military aircraft.


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Re: model B Ford update

Post by W Austen » Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:31 pm

The California Automobile Museum
2200 Front St, Sacramento, CA 95818-1107
Was originally the "Towe" Ford Collection


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Re: model B Ford update

Post by KimDobbins » Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:04 pm

The transmission is now back together. There has to be a certain amount of clearance in the transmission so it rotates freely. The clearance is set by the nut on the end with the set screw. Any ideas on what this clearance should be? In thinking .025-.030?
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Re: model B Ford update

Post by StanHowe » Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:38 pm

Lewis Rector did a lot of work on that Model B when Towe first got it and brought it to the shop in Helena for him to assemble. I saw it several times and did a very very small part in helping Lewis with it a couple times.

Are you familiar with Wayland Henry in Oregon. He reproduced at least one and probably more B engines. Keith from Gresham knows him well.

Kim, what would the B have had for an original carburetor??

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Re: model B Ford update

Post by Steve Jelf » Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:19 pm

I think I understand most of what I see there, but what's the story on the copper tubes coming out of the firewall?

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Re: model B Ford update

Post by KimDobbins » Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:54 pm

Stan, Wayland owns this car. He hasn't done much transmission work so he doesn't know the answer to the clearance issue. The B used 3 different carbs. Schebler, Holley and Kingston. I found a letter in the archives dated 1904 stating that all 3 carbs had been tested. The Holley was the best performer. The 1904 Holley is similar to the one used on the A and AC cars. the 1904 is a bit larger and has a few different internal parts. I have one but it still requires alot of fixing. I set up the NH to get the car started and and other running issues sorted out before i put the 1904 Holley on.
Steve, the brass tank is an oil reservoir pressurized by exhaust gas. Oil is fed up to a valve block where drip rates are set. one for each cylinder and one for the transmission ball cap.


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Re: model B Ford update

Post by StanHowe » Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:16 pm

I have some early holleys that are different than what I've seen..if you can send me a photo or drawing I may have one.


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Re: model B Ford update

Post by Jerry VanOoteghem » Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:31 pm

KimDobbins wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:54 pm
Stan, Wayland owns this car. He hasn't done much transmission work so he doesn't know the answer to the clearance issue. The B used 3 different carbs. Schebler, Holley and Kingston. I found a letter in the archives dated 1904 stating that all 3 carbs had been tested. The Holley was the best performer. The 1904 Holley is similar to the one used on the A and AC cars. the 1904 is a bit larger and has a few different internal parts. I have one but it still requires alot of fixing. I set up the NH to get the car started and and other running issues sorted out before i put the 1904 Holley on.
Steve, the brass tank is an oil reservoir pressurized by exhaust gas. Oil is fed up to a valve block where drip rates are set. one for each cylinder and one for the transmission ball cap.

Kim,

The Early Ford Registry has Gene Kristoffy's drawings for the "B" Holley carburetor. He made one, (or more), from scratch for the complete "B" engine/s he manufactured many years ago.


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Re: model B Ford update

Post by KimDobbins » Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:28 pm

Thanks Jerry, I made most of the missing parts off those drawings. There is still a fair amount of work to do on the carb.


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Re: model B Ford update

Post by KimDobbins » Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:35 pm

Stan, here is a picture of the carb and it’s current condition.
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Re: model B Ford update

Post by StanHowe » Sat Jan 18, 2020 7:05 pm

Wish I had a couple of those but they are different than what I have.
Depending on the actual design, needle and seat is a pretty small problem.
Thanks


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Re: model B Ford update

Post by Jerry VanOoteghem » Sat Jan 18, 2020 7:44 pm

KimDobbins wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:28 pm
Thanks Jerry, I made most of the missing parts off those drawings. There is still a fair amount of work to do on the carb.
Kris would be pleased! What a guy he was...

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Re: model B Ford update

Post by John Warren » Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:01 am

What a monumental task Kim, Looking great! Thanks for sharing.
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Re: model B Ford update

Post by Rob » Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:25 am

Kim,
I’m excited to see and hear your project run and drive. The Model B is the rarest, and I suspect least known of the alphabet Fords. I also suspect it was a strong car for the money in 1905. Thank you for including us as you bring this important piece of history back to life.


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Re: model B Ford update

Post by KimDobbins » Wed Jan 29, 2020 2:02 am

Today we made another attempt to get the 1904 model B Ford running. After a little work on the distributer, #3 is again firing. After turning the motor over a few times, I choked it and ran all 4 cylinders through the cycle. Then turned on the ignition, pulled down the spark lever a few notches and the motor took off! We only ran it a minute or so but it sounded real good. Sure was good to hear it run good, it may have been 100 years since it was last run. Maybe Rob can post the video of the motor running.

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Re: model B Ford update

Post by FreighTer Jim » Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:30 am

C4BBA45B-E2E4-4E3C-9630-320E5B9BE8F4.jpeg


FJ

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Re: model B Ford update

Post by gcomo » Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:49 am

I can only imagine the feeling of satisfaction from reviving such a piece of history.

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Re: model B Ford update

Post by thom » Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:44 am

From either side that is a beautiful engine.


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Re: model B Ford update

Post by Shane Lach » Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:13 am

Saw Jim's video on FB and love it. Awesome to see history come back to life.

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Closest I'll ever get to a model B.
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Re: model B Ford update

Post by Rob » Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:19 am

Congrats Kim! You guys are doing wonderful work on this piece of Ford history!

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Re: model B Ford update

Post by RustyFords » Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:49 am

Wow. I'm in awe of you guys who revive this historic machinery.
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