So why so little interest?

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KimDobbins
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So why so little interest?

Post by KimDobbins » Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:37 pm

A couple weeks ago, my neighbor listed his very nice, very original, very low mileage 1914 touring for sale. This is a really great very early 1914 running car with original upholstery and top. In my way of thinking, nice original cars are considerably more desirable then a restored car of unknown history. It was priced at 19k. The car did sell, but he got only 1 call. Price to high? Bad time to sell? World pandemic? Or just no interest is such a car?

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Re: So why so little interest?

Post by Henry K. Lee » Mon Aug 03, 2020 9:20 pm

Kim I believe you kinda hit it on the head of the nail.., way to many uncertainties in todays world.

Hank


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Re: So why so little interest?

Post by Norman Kling » Mon Aug 03, 2020 9:38 pm

Unfortunately, people seem to be most interested in the cars they knew while growing up. People such as myself who is 9 years younger than the last Model T used to see and occasionly ride in a Model T. However we are getting quite old now. The younger generations are interested in cars from the 50's and 60's. So even though our Model T's are in good condition, they don't sell for much because of the limited interest of the potential buyer.
Having said the above, it is important to include our grandchildren and great grandchildren and their friends in our hobby by letting them help us with mechanical work and riding along on tours and when they get old enough to drive, to let them drive our cars. Also school visits are very good too.
So enjoy the hobby as a pass time, but don't expect to make money with it.
Norm

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Re: So why so little interest?

Post by StevenS » Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:01 pm

I would be interested in it but I do not have the money now or the room as of yet. I only have room for two at this time. It is just bad timing for me. Ask me in four years form now when I am retired. I plan to get a 1913 or 1914 Model T Touring to add to my collection.
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Re: So why so little interest?

Post by Scott_Conger » Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:11 pm

might the worst drop in GDP in recorded history have anything to do with it?
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Re: So why so little interest?

Post by Steve Jelf » Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:23 pm

I think Scott may be onto something. The worst economy since 1930 could be a factor.

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Re: So why so little interest?

Post by TeveS-Nor Cal » Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:42 pm

That is a fantastic car! To nice for me to take out, run it hard, slightly abuse it and put it away wet! Maybe give it a once a year hosing off. Restore it? Not really worth doing in this market. Then there's always the "When are you going to paint It?" If you start following this forum a person can get really scared with the "it was running great and than...." How about the first time you see a picture of the 3 peddles- bands and clutch spring? Even if you are a car guy that can bring nightmares. Maybe we are just over thinking this fantastic hobby! Back to my speedster project!

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Re: So why so little interest?

Post by TRDxB2 » Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:44 pm

Of all the reasons why people buy collector cars the main reason is that they can afford to do so. Having said that it isn't just a matter of finances (purchase price, maintenance costs, insurance etc) but includes an alternative method of transportation (second car, or use of public transportation when needed). One r more of the following may drive the decision:
Nostalgia - remembering the past - their first car or the one they always wanted to buy but couldn't afford
Aesthetics - The most beautiful car they have ever seen
Inspiration - Movie/TV personality cars: Dukes of Hazard, Miami Vice, Bullet, 007 etc
DIY Guy - Always wanted to tinker with a car that they were not dependent upon
Trophy Car - To impress others with, high dollar cars sitting in a glass garage and never driven
Sport/Show - Have fun in a public setting
Investment - a car that will be worth more in the future than it costs today (applies to most of all the cars you sold 40-50 years ago that you purchased new but not to any the ones you purchased new in the last 20 :lol:


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Re: So why so little interest?

Post by Art Ebeling » Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:55 pm

Kim, I bought my 11 from him and had to force myself not to call about this 14. I thought the price was a little high, not enough to stop it from selling, but I had to factor in 2400.00 in shipping. To me it is all about the times we are in, they seem very uncertain so I held back even though I knew it was a good deal From a honest seller. Art


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Re: So why so little interest?

Post by OilyBill » Mon Aug 03, 2020 11:49 pm

Scott hit the nail right on the thumb!


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Re: So why so little interest?

Post by Burger in Spokane » Tue Aug 04, 2020 2:00 am

I tend to see the news off my own front porch. What's on TV seems to be coming
from another planet.

All this talk about a terrible economy ? .... it IS weird times, but I have booked out
my schedule a full year and turn away work every day. I cannot get to it ! Where is
this terrible economy the news keeps reporting ? Further, I do not know another con-
-tractor in my strata of work that isn't also slammed.

Now, the downturn problem I am having is, no one wants to work. This has been a
problem long before COVID, but even my Vet reps at various agencies have been pulled
from that duty and removed to processing normal unemployment claims. They all say
the same thing: they could not get any interest if they tried. Everyone just wants to
sit on their tukas and collect a check. Where does this fit into the narrative of a tanking
economy ?
More people are doing it today than ever before !


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Re: So why so little interest?

Post by Dallas Landers » Tue Aug 04, 2020 6:49 am

Burger, my front porch looks the same. I turn down more work than I could ever do. Im glad this car found a new home.

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Re: So why so little interest?

Post by Charlie B in N.J. » Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:50 am

It's resto-mods these days. Face it. An antique body with all the trimmings. Pretty persuasive don't you think? I don't feel that the T lends itself to this kind of thing and will remain in the horseless carriage area of collector vehicles simply because it is what it is.
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Re: So why so little interest?

Post by John kuehn » Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:13 am

In today’s world and what’s going on has a lot to do in interest in old cars, and anything that’s collectible. Circumstances dictate any kind interest when times are unpredictable.
To be realistic in the old car world what would you do if you were around 60 years old and you saw a Model T, a 57 Chevrolet hardtop, 67 Mustang fastback or a 69 Camero for sale in somebody’s yard and you had a pocketful of money which would you buy.
And that would be in normal times!


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Re: So why so little interest?

Post by KimDobbins » Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:41 am

My question was really centered on the people that read this forum. I understand that few people in the car collector hobby are interested in owning a model T Ford. I also own cars other then T's. I just thought it was strange that there was so little response to such a nice car from this group. In the end, the car went to a good home for a fair price.


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Re: So why so little interest?

Post by ModelT46 » Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:51 am

An original, unrestored, complete with original equipment brass Model T is and will always be, something very special. But it takes a "Model T Person" to really appreciate such a vehicle. Even one that has lost the back half of a touring is nice. Several years ago at Chickasha there was a cut off original 1912 touring putting around the grounds. What a treasure. That old saying "It is orignal only once" has a basic truth to it.


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Re: So why so little interest?

Post by Russ_Furstnow » Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:08 am

Kim, You said it best, "It went to a good home at a fair price." What else could one ask for? I checked and the car received over 1700 views on the classified portion of the forum, and to me, that shows there was significant interest in this car. I'm glad to see the car go to its new owner, because I know he will covet the car! Russ Furstnow

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Re: So why so little interest?

Post by FreighTer Jim » Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:15 am

We are in a Depression.

The likes of which no one living has experienced.

I travel the lower (48) states.

Things have changed and most likely will never be the same.


FJ


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Re: So why so little interest?

Post by rickd » Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:45 am

Hope this will cheer some of you guys up. I had a 26 Runabout listed on this forum and a lot of people looked at it. I sold it last week to a 26 year old young man who is working in the family restaurant business. He lives about 80 miles from me. I delivered the car to him in my enclosed trailer and we spent a couple hours together learning how to drive his new Model T. He was absolutely excited about the car. He could't stop grinning and once he figured out how to use those 3 pedals we were off to the races.

When I sell a car I always have some kind of seller remorse; this time it was different, we were both happy. I've introduced him to the MTFCA/MTFCI club info in follow up emails and he has updated me a couple of times about his new T.


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Re: So why so little interest?

Post by John kuehn » Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:12 pm

It would interesting to know how old the buyer of the 1914 was. I have to agree with FJ that things will be different in some ways. Peoples point of view of what’s really important will change.

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Re: So why so little interest?

Post by Dan B » Tue Aug 04, 2020 2:01 pm

There have been quite a few nice original cars for sale on the classifieds over the last couple of years. All of the asking prices are lower than what brass cars were bringing 10+ years ago. Quite frankly, I’m glad to see it as it allows a whole different group of buyers access to these cars.

I did not see the car in question but if he got anywhere close to that asking price, I would be very happy as a seller in this hobby and economy.
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Re: So why so little interest?

Post by Dan B » Tue Aug 04, 2020 2:08 pm

One more thought...not having a title for the car is a deal killer for a lot of people who live in states with very strict vehicle registration laws. Ask anyone who has been through it.
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Re: So why so little interest?

Post by RustyFords » Tue Aug 04, 2020 2:19 pm

If it sold and had 1700 views, I'd say interest is pretty decent.

Texas turned in record sales for the month of July (even compared to last year) based on tax receipts. My business would be having a great month if I could get my hands on any disposable gloves suitable for refinery use. The glove manufacturers are backed up 2 billion units and disposable gloves are one of my top sellers.

To be precise, the "record GDP drop" of 32% that the news so gleefully announced the other day was "annualized"....which means that's what the GDP drop would be if things continued like that for a year. The actuall drop was 9%....not good, but not 32%....not even close. You didn't hear that from CNN, et al, because it doesn't fit the narrative.

I took my 66 F100 to a local car gathering Saturday and put an "I don't really want to sell it" price on the for sale sign and they guy is putting the money together today. I really don't want to let it go, but I want to put some money into my 54 Ford tudor and get it the paint job it deserves. The old saying, 'be careful what you wish for' kind of bit me on the back side. :oops:

I have a standing offer to buy my "Great Depression Tribute" 24 Touring for $10k, from a local car collector who I know isn't bluffing. I don't see myself selling it anytime soon because it brings me so much joy, but all around me I'm seeing collector cars going for nice money.

My guess is that the old car market will continue to be strong until the last of my generation (I'm 51) gets too old to mess with them. Mine is the last generation raised to adulthood without the internet and who's young men were obsessed with cars and girls and little else. Once we're gone, I really think old cars will be a novelty that won't attract the big bucks anymore. But I could be wrong....and hope I am.
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Re: So why so little interest?

Post by KimDobbins » Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:19 pm

I do agree that not having a title is a Big deal! I told the seller that but he chose not to get one. I’m sure the seller will identify himself, I just spoke with him and he is having great fun with the car.

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Re: So why so little interest?

Post by Duey_C » Wed Aug 05, 2020 1:12 am

The antique gas engine and tractor markets have been sagging also for the last few years.
There was a post on another site a day or two ago asking the same question.
Not just this year but it sure doesn't help.
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Re: So why so little interest?

Post by Kuhner » Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:58 am

Don’t have a degree in economics but looked up what the GDP numbers are but I have to disagree with what Rusty Ford said. Looks to me like it is 32% decrease. Here is the government’s web site.
I maybe wrong in this case but when someone says something about media bias I try to check the source. Little research is what is lacking in today’s politics.

https://www.bea.gov/news/2020/gross-dom ... ual-update
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Re: So why so little interest?

Post by It's Bill » Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:17 am

I am reading that millennials apparently are most interested in cars of the 90s and newer plus Brass Era cars! Which are my favorites, even with all the polishing and maintenance. So there may be hope. Many young people are just not aware of older cars because of a lack of exposure to them, so we all need to get out and drive. IMHO. Cheers, Bill

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Re: So why so little interest?

Post by RustyFords » Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:23 am

Kuhner wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:58 am
Don’t have a degree in economics but looked up what the GDP numbers are but I have to disagree with what Rusty Ford said. Looks to me like it is 32% decrease. Here is the government’s web site.
I maybe wrong in this case but when someone says something about media bias I try to check the source. Little research is what is lacking in today’s politics.

https://www.bea.gov/news/2020/gross-dom ... ual-update
Plenty of articles out there saying that the number is annualized. You won't find them on the first page of Google though.

Here's one example. I found several others.

https://justthenews.com/nation/economy/ ... stocks-are
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Re: So why so little interest?

Post by 1194668jc » Thu Aug 06, 2020 1:20 pm

Norman Kling wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 9:38 pm
However we are getting quite old now. The younger generations are interested in cars from the 50's and 60's. So even though our Model T's are in good condition, they don't sell for much because of the limited interest of the potential buyer.
I agree with Norman Kling here. I am quite sociable in school and have been able to learn a lot about many "cars of interest." Out of about 100 people that I have talked with, I am the only one with an interest in Model Ts. There were a few who said that they didn't what I was talking about.

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Re: So why so little interest?

Post by Oldav8tor » Thu Aug 06, 2020 2:26 pm

Why own a Model T? I'm about to turn 71 and when I was born the newest Model T was already either in a collector's hands or quietly neglected and rusting away somewhere. I bought my first and only Model T in August of 2018. Ironically, I was nudged in that direction by my wife who loved riding the Model T's at Greenfield Village and at the big aviation gathering in Oshkosh. I know a fellow who owns a dozen Model T's and for our anniversary in 2018 I arranged a long ride for my wife. I got to thinking that Model T's were something we might both enjoy and the rest is history. Personally, I was attracted by the challenge of learning old technology and having a car upon which I could actually work myself. A big attraction was the Model T community itself, which I was introduced to on this forum while doing research before I bought my car. My experiences since then have only reinforced the idea that I made a good choice.

This may be a little off subject as far as the original point of this thread but I have a suggestion to all those who are concerned about the shortage of younger people joining the hobby and keeping our cars going. Rather than arranging events just for ourselves, how about giving some rides? Partner with a museum, car show, fair, you name it. I can promise that once exposed to a Model T, some people (like myself) are going to become owners. For me, although I live in Michigan, I joined the Dairyland Tin Lizzies so I can participate with them in giving rides at Airventure in Oshkosh, an event that attracts 750,000 people over the course of a week. They are true ambassadors for the Model T experience.
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Re: So why so little interest?

Post by DHort » Thu Aug 06, 2020 3:12 pm

I was at Fleet Farm yesterday and gave a young man a ride around the parking lot. He asked for my card. Maybe some day I will hear from him, and maybe not. Only took 5 minutes of my time. I have even given rides around a gas station. YOu never know.

Dallas gives rides to the Amish all the time, but I think they only like 1-2 horsepower models.


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Re: So why so little interest?

Post by KLTagert » Thu Aug 06, 2020 4:01 pm

The youth is the answer to the survival of these beautiful old cars. We've got to engage them !! Rides, getting their photo in a T and joining the MTFCA Model T Explorer Club are but a few ways.
There are approximately 150 in the Explorer club now, since it started Sept/Oct 2019. It is for ages 7 - 17 and it costs $15.00 a year. They will get 3 newsletters that have some pretty cool Model T information and experiments in it (put together by Karen Krawchuk, a teacher) and some other Model T welcome items. It's a small price to get a young persons interest.
As an example, at a show last year a young man (12) fell in love with my '25 Pickup, I let him sit in it, took his picture and we talked about it. He was thrilled, so (with his Dad's permission) I paid for his Explorer Club membership. And now, his father tells me his son has decided he'll get himself a T pickup one day (maybe he'll buy mine).
We've all got to take an active part - especially when things settle down and we're able to get back to the tours and car shows to connect with folks.
Apologize for being so long winded..............

Kathy

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Re: So why so little interest?

Post by AndyClary » Thu Aug 06, 2020 6:19 pm

Not everyone wants an unrestored car. I look at it as an excellent candidate for restoration. Unfortunately, at that asking price you would have 40,000 into a model T.

Andy


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Re: So why so little interest?

Post by Ken Buhler » Fri Aug 07, 2020 12:08 am

I am at risk of being OT but I plea. I don't understand when we have receipts for say $18,000 plus dollars for parts and an obvious $15,00 plus in labour and paint (yes paint is maybe $1,000 or more) that we should sell that car for $15-18,000. If we build a $10,000 dollar car, that's it. But if we build a $25- $28,000 dollar car, why can we not support or defend that? If I was in the position of being lowballed, I would ask the buyer which parts they want to exclude? Or maybe they could start ordering parts.


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Re: So why so little interest?

Post by Original Smith » Fri Aug 07, 2020 11:33 am

No one got me into the hobby. I always loved old cars. I had a 1907 Maxwell pull toy. Maybe that did it. My dad wouldn't let me have a T until he saw that high school diploma, because he knew how much I hated school. I got my first one when I was 17, and have been at it ever since.

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Re: So why so little interest?

Post by TRDxB2 » Fri Aug 07, 2020 1:00 pm

Times have changed. Regardless of where you grew up back then, 40's-70's, there wasn't much going on to occupy our time. If a guy wanted to make money the choices were, work in a service station, cut grass, deliver news papers, de-tassel corn, stock grocery shelves, etc.. Working in a "service station" lead to learning to work on cars with the incentive to have your own. In the last 30 years "service stations" have disappeared and the opportunity for youth to get their hands dirty has disappeared along with the desire to change the oil in their own cars and in some States pump their own gas. I'm sure you remember the car fads from the 60's and on: muscle cars, sports cars, bucket T's, hippi vans, kit cars, dune buggies, Baja bugs, lifted mini trucks, performance sports cars, low riders, and the last fad, Tuner Cars (Fast n' Furious). Currently there isn't really a car fad like in the past, likely due to the mechanical complexity of vehicles since the 90's. Hybrids, Electrics, UBER and LYFT are transportation alternatives to the current generation and are not a car fads. If you look outside the box, your garage, there are hardly any cars left between the 1970's and 2005; all gone to the recycle bin. Since History has a tendency to repeat itself, the simplicity of the Model T maybe be a draw to those wishing to exercise their mechanical skills and the other skills needed: welding, machinist, metalworking and etc could actually be a secondary incentive. Funny, but the Internet may actually be the Doctor to provide the information needed, list of suppliers, part sources etc to keep the Hobby alive.


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Re: So why so little interest?

Post by Derek Kiefer » Fri Aug 07, 2020 1:21 pm

As long as the cars exist, someone will have to own them... If there's no interest at current prices, they'll get really cheap and a new generation will find that there's cheap fun to be had, maybe as a novelty at first, but may grow into a passion. The hobby isn't going away in my opinion.

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BE A BEACON FOR MODEL T's

Post by Novice » Fri Aug 07, 2020 2:28 pm

Exposure and education is the key. Park Your T outside at least one day a week or so that people driving by can see it and know Henry's car is on the road alive and well. not just in museums. it will help generate interest. Take it to the local fast food or walmart and just sit in the parking lot for a while with Your sun umbrella and cold drink. might be surprised at the interest ? Model T Ownership has responsibilities. to promote and educate the public especially young folks. A percentage will be interested. the more people exposed to the old cars. the more folks that will decide Hay that's COOL I want one of those. Like the old Donna Fargo song says. "You can't be a beacon if Your light don't shine" Covid-19 does put a damper on interaction with the public right now but just having the car out where it can be seen with maybe a small sign. such as. 15 million made. This is Your Dad's Grand Fathers Car. with the year and a few spec by Your car will help publicize the T without putting your self in danger.

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Re: BE A BEACON FOR MODEL T's

Post by RustyFords » Fri Aug 07, 2020 4:46 pm

Novice wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 2:28 pm
Exposure and education is the key. Park Your T outside at least one day a week or so that people driving by can see it and know Henry's car is on the road alive and well. not just in museums. it will help generate interest. Take it to the local fast food or walmart and just sit in the parking lot for a while with Your sun umbrella and cold drink. might be surprised at the interest ? Model T Ownership has responsibilities. to promote and educate the public especially young folks. A percentage will be interested. the more people exposed to the old cars. the more folks that will decide Hay that's COOL I want one of those. Like the old Donna Fargo song says. "You can't be a beacon if Your light don't shine" Covid-19 does put a damper on interaction with the public right now but just having the car out where it can be seen with maybe a small sign. such as. 15 million made. This is Your Dad's Grand Fathers Car. with the year and a few spec by Your car will help publicize the T without putting your self in danger.
That's some good wisdom there Jim.
1924 Touring

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Re: So why so little interest?

Post by dykker5502 » Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:03 pm

What19.000 for a 1914 is maybe a pricetag that will limit the interest to those really in for an all original.
I paid 22.000 for my 1914 back in november 19 and that is an fairly original but restored 20 years ago I think.
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