Starter Not Turning Over Engine

[Its_Always_T_Time]

So I’ve fixed the stripped head bolt problem, turns out the threads in the block were pretty good, tap went in and out with little issue after the hole was cleaned. Valves looked ok and no sticking. Cleaned the rest of the engine and took care to keep cylinders clean of debris, then put in a new copper head gasket that my friend had and put it all back together.

I went to start Lizzie up with the starter after getting everything together and priming the engine with the crank, the starter turned the engine over a couple times, the engine popped and then the starter stopped turning over the engine and the starter began whirring. Oil poured out of the starter at an alarming rate (made a puddle) then stopped. I disconnected the battery and rode to work on my bicycle like a plebeian. When I came back from work a few minutes ago I opened up Lizzie’s house (garage) and I smelled the faintest hint of burned with a hint of ozone.

How should I fix this? I know I’ll have to remove the starter which doesn’t seem too bad, but will I need any special tools?

[speedytinc]

Are you 12v??
Sounds like a bendix problem opened up the cover. Pull the bendix cover. If nothing obvious, remove the bendix before pulling starter. You might need a small gear puller to remove the drive head.

[CudaMan]

The reason you have to pull the Bendix off of the starter shaft before removing the starter is so that the Bendix won't damage the magneto coil ring when you pull the starter out. When you pull the Bendix, be sure to keep track of the little woodruff key on the shaft, it can slip out and fall into the oil pan!

[Its_Always_T_Time]

No I’m 6V.

[Its_Always_T_Time]

About to open up the bendix cover according to the Ford bible and I’ll take a picture and post it in a few minutes.

[Its_Always_T_Time]

Bendix head spring screw is stripped, fell right into my hand. Bendix gear cover is cracked and that’s where the oil came out of. Pictures are too large to attach. Going to downsize then.

[Scott_Conger]

Not likely stripped. More likely worked out due to no lock tab. Interference with the cover on the way out broke the cover. Not a big deal.

Bendix likely usable with new screws (if necessary due to being bent) and new locking tabs (absolutely mandatory).

Langs: https://www.modeltford.com/item/5023-4-5.aspx

[Its_Always_T_Time]

I’m having trouble finding the bendix gear key? I don’t see one? The picture is confusing.

[kmatt2]

Yes as has been said it sounds like a broken bendix. The pop you heard was probably the engine kicking back. The kick back could have jammed the bendix which then broke. The broken bendix continued to spin and hit the bendix cover knocking it loose, hence the oil leak. Because you disconnected the battery before you left for work, the burnt electrical smell when you returned from work was from the started motor being jammed for a second at the time this all happened not later on. If this all happened it would be a worse case, but I can think of a even worse case. You could have been hand cranking your T when it kicked back and the broken bendix could have been your broken wrist. Hopefully it is just a broken bendix set screw or key.

[speedytinc]

drive key is within the 1st inch of the starter shaft. It keys bendix drive head.

[Its_Always_T_Time]

The screw is stripped.
https://imgur.com/a/af0zmtQ

[CudaMan]

If the woodruff key is missing, then all of the force of the starter is taken by the spring bolt, which is why the bolt eventually sheared. Find your original key and reinstall it, or get a new key. The key is what should take the starter torque, not the spring bolt.

[Its_Always_T_Time]

Looks like the threads in the bendix head are gone and the hole out of round. Bendix gear itself is ok with one slightly chipped tooth and it turns freely in the shaft.

https://imgur.com/a/9sIgIuV

[kmatt2]

The picture you posted looks like the kick back bent the spring and that force stripped the mount bolt. If the rear drive is still keyed to starter shaft the spring eye should line up, yours is offset now. Pull the rear mount, don't lose the key, then pull the drive. Check parts for damage and replace as needed, check starter motor operation. Reinstall drive with replacement can if needed.

[Its_Always_T_Time]

Looks like the key is too small? Like the corners are chipped. The spring does not seem to be cracked but it does seem to be very compressed.

[Its_Always_T_Time]

I’m imagining I can just seal the crack of the bendix gear cover with some solder? I don’t seem to see any for sale.

Edit: Never mind, I found one!

http://www.snjparts.com/Model-T-Starter ... -3380.html

[CudaMan]

Glad you found a new cover. When you get the new spring bolts, be sure to get the OEM style with the thinner heads. Some of the repros have thick heads that rub on the inside of the cover, making a terrible sound and damaging the cover. Also, get new tab washers, you shouldn't re-use the old ones. I hope you're getting a new collar to replace the one with the wallowed-out hole. Good luck!

[Its_Always_T_Time]

Oh yes I’m getting a new bendix head, that hole is totally shot. I’m also getting a new set of bendix gear screw bolts, lock washers, new housing gasket and housing.

Thank You SO MUCH for all the recent help you guys! You guys are awesome!

[aDave]

AWESOME is a word that can be used to describe your pictures!

So clear, such detail - just enough "scenery" to see what you describe in text.

Congrats on the mechanical work and well as the photography !

Cheers!

[FundyTides]

Just a quick comment to make your life a little easier. You may already know this but when removing the Bendix cover a lot of grief can be avoided by only removing three screws. Just loosen the one at the 3 o'clock position, don't remove it. The cover is normally slotted to slide behind this screw. It is quite difficult to install this screw with the cover in place. If you have already removed it, just install it loosely before you put the cover in place. Good luck!

[Its_Always_T_Time]

Yes that screw at the 3 o’clock position was quite fun to remove! Once I get the bendix repaired I’ll check the timer firing positions and see if they’re all lined up or close to it. Better that Lizzie kicked back on the starter and not on my wrists!

[Steve Jelf]

Don't lose those little cover screws. If you do you'll have to order them from one of the parts dealers and pay shipping. They are an odd size and you won't find them at a local hardware store. They're easier to get started with a wire handle.

[Its_Always_T_Time]

I’ve kept the cover screws on Lizzie’s running boards. I like to get my hands oily working on Lizzie so I don’t mind starting the screws by hand!

[Bill Coyle]

Speaking of bendix cover screws... I've been using metric allen head cap screws 6 x 1.0. I read about it on the forum years ago. Easy to install because they will stay on the Allen wrench as you guide it into the hole. There is also a slight difference in thread pitch which will help keep it from backing out on its own. Plus available at the local hardware Bill

[Allan]

Bill, metric threads can be used elsewhere on a T. When fitting a Moore gearbox with a 3:1 gearset to the rear axle in my roadster buckboard, I needed short bolts to attach the pinion bearing spool to the centre housing. Those threads too are an odd "Henry" size. I found that 10mm x 1.5 pitch bolts wound in almost 9 turns before getting a little too tight, and that was plenty for the job.
On RHD cars we do not have the same problems fitting the bendix cover because there are no pedals in the way. However, the screws are still fiddly so I came up wit the following solution. I use an insulated electician's screwdriver with blade tip the same width as the shaft. I push the screw head into a piece of fuel hose to hold it and then slide the hose onto the screwdriver shaft. You can engage the screw slot before using the captive screw and driver to start the screw in the hole. The screw at 3 o'clock may not allow direct access for the river, but if that one is left in place, the other three should be easy.

Hope this helps,
Allan from down under.

[Norman Kling]

I suspect you did not lose the woodruff key. I think it was not placed the last time the bendix was replaced on the starter shaft. So the entire force of the starter hitting the flywheel was on that bolt. It just happened to come loose at the time you last tried to use the starter. I think you can save the cover by sealing it up with solder or brazing it. Just be sure it does not leak because that's a location which gets a lot of oil.
The key can be found by taking the bendix head to any auto parts store and asking for a key which fits the slot. It will usually be just the right size to fit the shaft.
Good luck,
Norm

[Its_Always_T_Time]

I ordered a new key from Lang’s Norm, I got the old one off but I figured it’s only a $0.50 part which takes the brunt of the starter’s force, might as well replace it. The key just flew backwards on to the garage floor when I went to grab the spring after removing the stripped bendix head. An older gentleman here on City Island has a couple of Model T’s that have been sitting in his garage for 30+ years (I had no idea they were here until very recently) and maybe I can convince him to swap starter covers in the meantime since it’s on backorder and not available currently.

[CudaMan]

There may be others, but this was the first one I spotted on an Ebay search. I have no connection to the seller or the ad.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/254951168665?f ... SwkctggJfv

[kmatt2]

You should be able to get a used starter bendix can from Model T Haven, they have many T parts for sale.

[Steve Jelf]

I like to get my hands oily working on Lizzie so I don’t mind starting the screws by hand!

The wire isn't for cleanliness. It's for holding the screw where I have trouble reaching with my clumsy fingers.